1st Time Jeeper Opinions

[Petescj]

Be wary of any you get under that have the rubberized coating sprayed on the underside. That coating and bedliner are good at hiding rust. Even if its not there now when it starts it'll be harder to spot and a bigger fix when you do. If I were you Id stay away from fiberglass for one good reason. If your 6 ft an intermediate CJ5 is going to be tight. Sure you can deal with it in the begining but after awhile Id think it would get to you.

With a steel tub it will make it easier for you to do a popular modification called "notching" the wheel well. The wheelwell is right behind the driver seat on a CJ5 and doesnt leave alot of room to move the seat back. Taller guys will cut a portion of the wheelwell away and then cap it with new sheetmetal allowing the seat to move back further. Heres a link to what I mean:


Wheelhouse Notch | SSDutch CJ6 Jeep Blog | Boyink!

This is getting good now. I'm grateful that you guys are starting to get interested in this discussion. These more specific recommendations, cautions, and opinions are exactly what I was hoping to get.

I'm definitely going to take your advice about carefully inspecting the hidden undersides of my prospective buys. I wonder what sort of reactions I'll get from sellers when I slide underneath their prize with a hammer in my hand.

After studying a bunch of ads and corresponding with some owners, it seems that there are a lot of people who own these things with a lot less knowledge than even I have. The ads rarely get specific about the drive train components and responses to my inquiries on that subject will be "it has the original transmission" or "it's four wheel drive". I'm really looking forward to the actual meetings.

I've been leery about the fiberglass body "restorations" that I see, and I'm not sure why. I suppose original, unmolested is attractive because it will be easier to determine what I'm actually buying and there's been less PO modifying. Now, I'm beginning to think that there are probably some good, well done, rehabs that have fiberglass body parts, and if I can be satisfied that nothing underneath is too screwed up, it might not be a bad buy. Are there any opinions on that viewpoint?

When I'm lying down, I measure about 6' from end to end, so I'm not any bigger than average. I'm aware that the concept of ergonomics was somewhat alien to the designers of these earlier Jeeps and that doesn't bother me at all. I'm really looking forward to the weirdness. I will be comforted by finding the high beam button on the floor where it belongs. The driver involvement experience that's so radically different from the normal, contemporary vehicles is exactly what I want. I'm looking forward to the challenge of keeping my old Jeep on my side of the road.

 

[tarry99]

This is getting good now. I'm grateful that you guys are starting to get interested in this discussion. These more specific recommendations, cautions, and opinions are exactly what I was hoping to get.

I'm definitely going to take your advice about carefully inspecting the hidden undersides of my prospective buys. I wonder what sort of reactions I'll get from sellers when I slide underneath their prize with a hammer in my hand.

After studying a bunch of ads and corresponding with some owners, it seems that there are a lot of people who own these things with a lot less knowledge than even I have. The ads rarely get specific about the drive train components and responses to my inquiries on that subject will be "it has the original transmission" or "it's four wheel drive". I'm really looking forward to the actual meetings.

I've been leery about the fiberglass body "restorations" that I see, and I'm not sure why. I suppose original, unmolested is attractive because it will be easier to determine what I'm actually buying and there's been less PO modifying. Now, I'm beginning to think that there are probably some good, well done, rehabs that have fiberglass body parts, and if I can be satisfied that nothing underneath is too screwed up, it might not be a bad buy. Are there any opinions on that viewpoint?

When I'm lying down, I measure about 6' from end to end, so I'm not any bigger than average. I'm aware that the concept of ergonomics was somewhat alien to the designers of these earlier Jeeps and that doesn't bother me at all. I'm really looking forward to the weirdness. I will be comforted by finding the high beam button on the floor where it belongs. The driver involvement experience that's so radically different from the normal, contemporary vehicles is exactly what I want. I'm looking forward to the challenge of keeping my old Jeep on my side of the road.

Allot of us that own early Pre 71 Jeeps have made the upgrades over the years to Saginaw Power Steering, swing pedals, tilt columns , Power disc brakes and a host of other modern improvements while still keeping the old look alive...........and there still remains many purest that love the old manual steering and the 9 inch drum brakes............whatever your likes are can be had.

Just be careful if your looking at a modified Jeep that the quality of work was performed properly and in good taste.

 

[Mark W]

With an early model brakes and electrical are the big issues (rust aside) drums are not to hard to fix especially if you have a brake spring tool.

Electrical just takes time or money if its not your DD a little time would save you alot of money.

As for the height issue I am 6' 1" and while a CJ5 is tight after some time its not so bad other than the very short windshield.

 

[cj7inthetwigs]

I really liked the CJ5 but felt like I would do better with a 7. Im glad I went that route. Im 6'1" tall and weigh 225. With sliders on both front seats I am crammed and my head is really close to the hardtop. My seats are Bestop reclining high backs. Mine is a auto, yes I wanted a manual but thats that. Po shouldn't care if you look unless their hiding something. Test driving is a must and you can start that anytime.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[Hedgehog]

I agree with almost all that has been said except the advice to take what we are writing with a grain of salt. Except for me picking you at first, even some of that was serious, the responses I've seen here are well thought out, pointing to things to look for and try in your new Jeep before you buy it. Naturally I think my advice about actually sitting in the Jeep is the best and easiest thing to do right off the bat. Don't just sit while your in there, try the brakes and clutch. I'm a nice smooth pear shaped 5'-9" when I lift my leg for the brake my knee has trouble with the steering column, with similar problems with the clutch. It's surprising how many people buy before doing the easiest things like actually sitting in their new toy. Remember you will spend more time sitting in that Jeep than you will under it. I'm not arrogant enough to tell you to ignore the other advice, ALL of it is good. I don't think anybody is trying to dissuade you from your choice of Jeeps, what is being said is to go into this purchase being aware of what your getting yourself into.

About the wheel notch. The link shows a method for doing the cut, but the finished product an be much better looking. I did the notch myself, it wasn't especially difficult and it turned out better looking than the one shown.

I am almost willing to bet that most of the jeeps your looking at were family Jeeps that Dad or Grandpa had before he passed away and the family doesn't really know much about the Jeep. There are also a surprising number of them that wee lightly used and stored for long periods of time. If stored properly these can be great finds. My friend that has a '69 very much like the one your were looking at got a stored vehicle with very few miles on it. He is very proud of the fact that his is stock. Of course I can't help but ask about his stock jeep with a modified fuel tank, a body life, new seats, carpeting, radio, extra airplane throttle and big tires is doing. :bounce: Basically all the popular mod's. Modifications sorta creep up on a Jeep owner. He used to get mad, now he just laughs about it.

 

[Bowbender]

Pounce on one of those '67s you've been looking at and we can compare notes as we go through them.
I'm looking forward to getting back after mine, "life" sidetracked me for a bit.

 

[BajaEdition]

I have 2 early CJ5s, a 67 and a 70, well the 70 is actually a CJ6

I do not think that being a purist is a good thing if you are going to drive it.
they are really old technology and upgrades make them way user friendly
Disc brakes
Chain or hydraulic clutch
saginaw steering
these are all must haves in my opinion. I also like to put a Dana 30 in teh front end and get rid of the closed knuckle front end

I can say I find working on a CJ fun, and if it does not run for a few months, ah so what. To me they are a life long friend and it pays off when you pull up somewhere and guys go nuts over your ride.

 

[SlowPocono]

Be wary of any you get under that have the rubberized coating sprayed on the underside. That coating and bedliner are good at hiding rust. Even if its not there now when it starts it'll be harder to spot and a bigger fix when you do. If I were you Id stay away from fiberglass for one good reason. If your 6 ft an intermediate CJ5 is going to be tight. Sure you can deal with it in the begining but after awhile Id think it would get to you.

With a steel tub it will make it easier for you to do a popular modification called "notching" the wheel well. The wheelwell is right behind the driver seat on a CJ5 and doesnt leave alot of room to move the seat back. Taller guys will cut a portion of the wheelwell away and then cap it with new sheetmetal allowing the seat to move back further. Heres a link to what I mean:


Wheelhouse Notch | SSDutch CJ6 Jeep Blog | Boyink!

The bed liner / undercoat remark is very helpful. That situation is something I hadn't thought about too much.

I'm also convinced that I need to try one on for size too, even though I can't understand how they could make a vehicle for over 20 years that people couldn't drive.

Another thing that puzzles me is why there is a problem performing the "notch" on a fiberglass tub.


By the way, I have a friend named Notch.

Notch and Sundance - YouTube

 

[SlowPocono]

... ALL of it is good. I don't think anybody is trying to dissuade you from your choice of Jeeps, what is being said is to go into this purchase being aware of what your getting yourself into...

I'm with you on that completely.
It's exactly the reason I started this thread and I'm glad that so many of you are being helpful.

 

[Hedgehog]

Fiberglass can be notched. It is possibly even easier to work with than steel, but you need to know how to handle fiberglass to make a good looking job of it.

Remember the original Jeeps were made for soldiers born in the 1920's. People were generally smaller back then and most generally young. Generally Jeep size stayed the same into the 1970's. Not to mention people expected less from their vehicles than we do today. Today’s vehicles have creature comforts as standard equipment that were unheard of back then. I remember the day where jeeps didn't have driven passenger windshield wipers. There was a handle inside the cab, if the passenger wanted to see during a rain storm he turned the handle himself. The driver’s wiper was vacuum and would vary speed depending on how fast you were going. Hit the gas and the wipers almost stopped, pull your foot off the gas and they went into hyper drive. Both quirky and memorable. When I was young wiping my side of the window gave me a sense of power rarely experienced by young people.

That doesn't mean you have to live with discomfort. I'm not tall, but at 5'-10 and pear shaped I'm not small either. The first thing I did was notch the wheel wells. Then the steering wheel column shaft was shortened 2" to give more respect for my pear like contours.

 

[Petescj]

Another thing that puzzles me is why there is a problem performing the "notch" on a fiberglass tub.

Let me rephrase. Most people are used to working with metal not fiberglass therefore making the steel tub easier. If you have worked with fiberglass before then Im sure you could do it. Id think it would be more difficult to get a clean look using fiberglass. Maybe not though?

 

[Hedgehog]

Yep, fiberglass is a take it away to add back on proposition to do it properly. It's impossible to get a decent finished product by just laying more fiberglass on to cover the cut. You basically use fiber glass rosin to stick the part back on, then remove some surface to layer in the Fiber/rosin. Final coat is a special gel coat that makes a better seal and a smooth surface. Then sand and paint.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

Remember the original Jeeps were made for soldiers born in the 1920's. People were generally smaller back then and most generally young. Generally Jeep size stayed the same into the 1970's. Not to mention people expected less from their vehicles than we do today. Today’s vehicles have creature comforts as standard equipment that were unheard of back then. I remember the day where jeeps didn't have driven passenger windshield wipers. There was a handle inside the cab, if the passenger wanted to see during a rain storm he turned the handle himself. The driver’s wiper was vacuum and would vary speed depending on how fast you were going. Hit the gas and the wipers almost stopped, pull your foot off the gas and they went into hyper drive. Both quirky and memorable. When I was young wiping my side of the window gave me a sense of power rarely experienced by young people.

Hedgehog has a very good point about old technologies. I’m old enough to remember the windshield wipers almost coming to a stop when my father would need to give the old Henry-J the gas to climb a hill. (For those who don’t know, the Henry-J was made by Kaiser and shared the old venerable 134 - I4 motor with Jeep. Most of the old Js where eventually cut up for dragsters.) We have to remember that the Jeep was developed for the War Department (for WWII, not the 1920s) where creature comforts was not important, only function counted and the last generation of CJs came a long way from the battlefields of WWII. However there is something to be said for old technology cool………..

 

[Hedgehog]

But WWII soldiers were born in the 1920's and early 1930's.....

Here's something to consider about the old military Jeeps. My Jeep friend Rob pointed out that the original WWII Military Jeep had a life expectancy of less than 90 days. There was no reason to make the transmissions super strong or the body work to last or be comfortable. When we fought in WWII we knew we couldn't win by matching the Germans in technology. We won by resupplying our troops with thousands of items in a way that isolated Germany simply couldn't over come. Take the Sherman tank with it's gas engine. They were relatively quick on the field and easy to build. The Germans called the Sherman tanks Yanky poppers. Shoot'em once and they pop like pop corn. The war department knew we were going to lose men and material in staggering numbers. Knew it couldn't be helped and pushed forward. If we used less flammable Diesel fuel many more tankers would be alive today. ........annnd how did I get on that short speech?

 

[SlowPocono]

If you fellows get tired of being thanked for the help you are providing, please let me know, but I really am getting a lot of helpful thoughts out of this.



I'll use Hedgehog's tank engine remarks as a convenient segue into the subject of Jeep engines.

As yet, newer Jeeps have not been ruled out for me, but right now, my focus is on the pre 1972 models. I'm very interested in collecting some opinions about the engines I'll have to chose from. Unless there's some crazy attractive bargain that pops up, I'm going to stay away from V8 conversions. That leaves the possibilities, as I understand them, to be either the F134 Hurricane or the Dauntless V6.

From reading on this subject, both of those engines seem very good and neither one would be a mistake.

My take is that the four cylinder engine is easier on the drivetrain, cheaper to rebuild and slower on the road than the V6. I guess that it's also more fuel efficient too.

Please voice your opinions about this, Correct me where I'm wrong or let me know if my understanding is correct.

I'm sure that someone can show me something that I've failed to consider too.

 

[tarry99]

If you fellows get tired of being thanked for the help you are providing, please let me know, but I really am getting a lot of helpful thoughts out of this.



I'll use Hedgehog's tank engine remarks as a convenient segue into the subject of Jeep engines.

As yet, newer Jeeps have not been ruled out for me, but right now, my focus is on the pre 1972 models. I'm very interested in collecting some opinions about the engines I'll have to chose from. Unless there's some crazy attractive bargain that pops up, I'm going to stay away from V8 conversions. That leaves the possibilities, as I understand them, to be either the F134 Hurricane or the Dauntless V6.

From reading on this subject, both of those engines seem very good and neither one would be a mistake.

My take is that the four cylinder engine is easier on the drivetrain, cheaper to rebuild and slower on the road than the V6. I guess that it's also more fuel efficient too.

Please voice your opinions about this, Correct me where I'm wrong or let me know if my understanding is correct.

I'm sure that someone can show me something that I've failed to consider too.

Basically the drive train in a 1960 through 1971 CJ is about the same. Front axle a Dana 25 or Dana 27 the rear a Dana 41 or for the most part a two piece axle Dana 44............up through 1966 only the 4 cylinders in either gas or diesel's were available. In late 1965 Willys introduced the Buick "Dauntless" V6 into the Jeep line of vehicles.
There are thousands of upgrades into the early CJ's using the same old running gear that now have a V-6 or V-8 engines in them that with care still run the old components.
Personally the 4 cylinder motor is under powered at 75 HP.......for any form of freeway driving. Off road at lower altitudes they do OK.
The Buick V6 at 160 HP can maintain freeway speeds at 55-65 MPH. Off Road they do just fine with the right gearing.............parts are still available for both although finding a replacement block or crankshaft for either has become a challenge.

 

[Petescj]

Id go through the Craigslist ads you like now and test drive them.

 

[Hedgehog]

The V6 is a much loved and respected engine. You can go to the Novak site and read up on the history of the V6, it's an interesting read without being overly long. There were othr engines offered, but damn few of them made it to the street.

I'd get it just for the name, "Dauntless". The name itself brings to mind the WWII battle of Midway where the Dougless SBD Dauntless Dive Bomber ripped the heart out of the Japanese Navy winning the day and quite possibly the war in the Pacific.

 

[Mark W]

Finding a new block for a 225 V6 would be hard but you could get a 231 block, heads a pistons. The 231 is the latter Buick V6 it is even fire but its also internally balanced so swaping the guts and using the external balance of the 225 Crank and fly wheel would work, though you might want a mild cam to help feed the larger bore. Also I think TA performance still makes an odd fire crank. If you have never rebuilt and engine this might be a little to much to do your self, but just the thought of performance upgrades makes me happy! :driving:

 

[tarry99]

Finding a new block for a 225 V6 would be hard but you could get a 231 block, heads a pistons. The 231 is the latter Buick V6 it is even fire but its also internally balanced so swaping the guts and using the external balance of the 225 Crank and fly wheel would work, though you might want a mild cam to help feed the larger bore. Also I think TA performance still makes an odd fire crank. If you have never rebuilt and engine this might be a little to much to do your self, but just the thought of performance upgrades makes me happy! :driving:

Sorry the 225 is an odd fire motor with an odd fire common rod journal crank..........it will not work in an even fire motor since the even fire use's a split journal crank.......at best the only thing that would cross over would be the flywheel if it was balanced at Zero. Heads and pistons do not interchange either.
No one makes an Odd Fire crank anymore......what is in the market place or laying in someones backroom is all there is......... also since they were cast the crank grinders cannot weld up a bad journal.