Build Thread Father/Son Project in Orlando

[FiNorman]

did you order the cj or yj shims? and where did you order them from? Do you think I will need 6 degrees?
thanks

 

[PaRenegade]

I got 2.5" Rubicon Express brand ones from Q-tec for $33 a pair. Six degrees would be a good guess but if your wrong then you have to deal with returning and getting the right ones, so it's best to measure first to save the hassle.
Rubicon Express RE1468 - Rubicon Express Solid Steel Shims for 2.5" Wide Leaf Springs - Quadratec

 

[FiNorman]

I got the angle gauge and I hope I am placing it in the correct spot. I first placed it on the knuckle next to where the castle nut is for the tie rod and got a reading of 10*. Then I noticed that maybe the way the knuckle is made there is an angel present making the tip of the knuckle point upward slightly.

next placed it on the flat portion of the knuckle between the castle nut connecting the axle and the dust cover to the brake. There I got a measurement of 4*.

If this is correct should I leave it so or try to get to 6*?

Is this the correct place to measure the angle? I can't exactly tell from the picture but it looks like PA Renegade has his angle gauge on large socket that sitting on the large castle nut connecting the axle to the knuckle.

I also ordered the JustgoFerit sleeves and will install them as soon as they come, so maybe that will change my steering linkage angle.

Does anyone have any suggestions on using the pitman arm or stock or should I just see which comes out more horizontal? since I don't have the drive train in I think that will sink the springs down an inch also, correct?

 

[tarry99]

I got the angle gauge and I hope I am placing it in the correct spot. I first placed it on the knuckle next to where the castle nut is for the tie rod and got a reading of 10*. Then I noticed that maybe the way the knuckle is made there is an angel present making the tip of the knuckle point upward slightly.

next placed it on the flat portion of the knuckle between the castle nut connecting the axle and the dust cover to the brake. There I got a measurement of 4*.

If this is correct should I leave it so or try to get to 6*?

Is this the correct place to measure the angle? I can't exactly tell from the picture but it looks like PA Renegade has his angle gauge on large socket that sitting on the large castle nut connecting the axle to the knuckle.

I also ordered the JustgoFerit sleeves and will install them as soon as they come, so maybe that will change my steering linkage angle.

Does anyone have any suggestions on using the pitman arm or stock or should I just see which comes out more horizontal? since I don't have the drive train in I think that will sink the springs down an inch also, correct?

Pretty hard to angle find that front axle when your up on Jack Stands with no weight on the axle.............you have to establish ride height first with all weight including you in the vehicle on the ground..............now you have reference point.........then check your axle.

As far as the Goforit sleeves you can just take a straight edge and estimate how by changing the location from bottom to top how that will help or not help your steering geometry.

 

[FiNorman]

Pretty hard to angle find that front axle when your up on Jack Stands with no weight on the axle.............you have to establish ride height first with all weight including you in the vehicle on the ground..............now you have reference point.........then check your axle.

As far as the Goforit sleeves you can just take a straight edge and estimate how by changing the location from bottom to top how that will help or not help your steering geometry.

great point, there are too many variables and I don't even have it on the ground.

 

[PaRenegade]

@#$%^&*!! I just had this all typed out and I clicked on one of your thumbnails to review and when I closed that my post was gone. Again.....

The weight issue I wasn't too concerned about because the center of the spring doesn't move much, it's the two sides of the arch that flex as it tries to flatten out. But it does need to be level. I just measured the center of each axle to the floor and made them match.

Finding a flat spot on the knuckle can sometimes be difficult, especially if theres burrs or built up paint or the nut isn't turned just right. That's why I used the socket. Ideally you want to measure the surface of the top of the knuckle which is perpendicular to the imaginary line drawn thru the ball joints. The top of the castle nut would be fine too but the top of the ball stud was a bit higher yet. So I used a socket that would go over the stud but still rest on the nut. You may have to bend the cotter pin out of your way.

Note too that the top also slopes down in the direction of the axle. Make sure the dangling arrow isn't touching the sides and is still free to dangle.

The shims that came on the OME springs are 2* so add that to whatever you need. And it doesn't have to be exactly 6* (or whatever your year calls for), 5 or 7 will work. Even at 4* you probably won't have a steering issue. So precision isn't crucial, but your aiming for 6* (if that's what yours requires, I don't recall the year).

By doing the drag link flip using the goferit inserts you should be able to get rid of that dropped pitman arm and go back to the stock one, which is really the whole purpose of doing it. Plus to eliminate bump steer and to gain back the tighter turning radius of a stock Jeep.

 

[FiNorman]

@#$%^&*!! I just had this all typed out and I clicked on one of your thumbnails to review and when I closed that my post was gone. Again.....

The weight issue I wasn't too concerned about because the center of the spring doesn't move much, it's the two sides of the arch that flex as it tries to flatten out. But it does need to be level. I just measured the center of each axle to the floor and made them match.

Finding a flat spot on the knuckle can sometimes be difficult, especially if theres burrs or built up paint or the nut isn't turned just right. That's why I used the socket. Ideally you want to measure the surface of the top of the knuckle which is perpendicular to the imaginary line drawn thru the ball joints. The top of the castle nut would be fine too but the top of the ball stud was a bit higher yet. So I used a socket that would go over the stud but still rest on the nut. You may have to bend the cotter pin out of your way.

Note too that the top also slopes down in the direction of the axle. Make sure the dangling arrow isn't touching the sides and is still free to dangle.

The shims that came on the OME springs are 2* so add that to whatever you need. And it doesn't have to be exactly 6* (or whatever your year calls for), 5 or 7 will work. Even at 4* you probably won't have a steering issue. So precision isn't crucial, but your aiming for 6* (if that's what yours requires, I don't recall the year).

By doing the drag link flip using the goferit inserts you should be able to get rid of that dropped pitman arm and go back to the stock one, which is really the whole purpose of doing it. Plus to eliminate bump steer and to gain back the tighter turning radius of a stock Jeep.

I will let you know what it looks like with the tie rod flip.
thanks again

 

[tarry99]

great point, there are too many variables and I don't even have it on the ground.

When setting up any suspension & steering system the only right way is with the approximate weight in the vehicle at ride height to compress and load the suspension and axles............If the vehicle is in the air I will use Sand Bags to do that statically............

 

[FiNorman]

When setting up any suspension & steering system the only right way is with the approximate weight in the vehicle at ride height to compress and load the suspension and axles............If the vehicle is in the air I will use Sand Bags to do that statically............

That's a great idea. My buddy was in the Navy, maybe he and his wife will come over and sit in it while I do the adjustment.

 

[FiNorman]

Last night I finally got around to installing the GoFerIt inserts and redoing the tie rod and steering linkage. The Linkage appears to be nearly horizontal, and the installation was super easy. I bought a 3/4 inch drill bit from Sears, and the drilling only took about a two minutes per hole. (It seems like the metal was super soft to drill. It just came out in chunks.) Once I determined that the fit was what I was looking for, I ground out the 1/16th of an inch on the bottom of the sleeve that stuck out on the other side of the knuckle, welded 4 spot welds into the top of the knuckle and installed the rods.

If you should see anything is not properly mounted please let me know.

I guess now I just wait until the wheels and tires are on to see what my alignment comes out like.

 

[PaRenegade]

Your sway bar looks to be on backwards. Should go back then down instead of down then back. Should give you more clearance to the tie rod.

 

[FiNorman]

Your sway bar looks to be on backwards. Should go back then down instead of down then back. Should give you more clearance to the tie rod.

Thank you sir! I will correct it most rikki-tic. If you see anything else I appreciate the tip.

As I was tightening the flange nut (it replaced the castle nut on the goferit kit) on the ball joint I had a time where I couldn't tighten it or loosen it. The nut was turning but not tightening. I finally figured out the ball joint was spinning with the nut. Is there anyway to fix this?

 

[PaRenegade]

You mean tie rod end, not ball joint. You could try clamping it together tighter (tre to strg. arm) then tightening it, but that's probably about as tight as you'll get it or that it needs to be. Don't forget to check it after 50 miles or so. I don't like that flange nut usage. I assume it's a serrated flange nut too. Castle nuts and cotter pins are more reassuring.

 

[Hedgehog]

I really don't like the looks of that shackle. It should be forward of the mount. As it is there is nothing keeping it from colapsing the wrong way.

 

[PaRenegade]

Naw, it'll be okay. Mine is the same way. Those springs are almost fully flexed with the shocks on. Theres no weight there without the engine. As long as they're not inline with the spring when fully drooping they won't invert.

 

[FiNorman]

You mean tie rod end, not ball joint. You could try clamping it together tighter (tre to strg. arm) then tightening it, but that's probably about as tight as you'll get it or that it needs to be. Don't forget to check it after 50 miles or so. I don't like that flange nut usage. I assume it's a serrated flange nut too. Castle nuts and cotter pins are more reassuring.

I was planning on using LocTite 242 on it, but wondered if it was better to use the flange nut, or use the castle nut/cotter pin with a thick washer... maybe one similar to what goes on the Ubolts?

 

[Hedgehog]

So, if he goes over a bump and unloads the axle to the point where the shackles are actually pointing backwards like is shown in the pictures he has nothing to worry about. I may be too conservative in my thinking.

 

[PaRenegade]

Although they are pointing backwards, in relation to absolute vertical, they are still pointing forward in relation to the spring. They would have to be inline with the spring (as if it were a perfect extension of the spring) before they could pivot in the other direction, or invert. So in his picture, and mine, they are drooped pretty close to max., and theres still a bit more movement that would be needed before the pivot point could go the other way.
Theoretically your correct but that could only happen if you assume theres no maximum droop or flex point. My shocks, and probably his, are going to bottom out before that happens.

 

[Hedgehog]

I'm hearing what your saying. I was warned about this very thing so thought it would be something to consider.

 

[PaRenegade]

Oh yes it's definitely something to consider. And I've always found it odd that people say to move the shackle hanger forward 1/2" when converting to the 1" longer wrangler springs, even with longer than stock shackles. That makes it closer to that point of inversion. or I should more accurately say it keeps it the same but just moves it forward 1". Mine look further forward of his a tad because I didn't move it. I modified MORE hangers to be mounted like stock. His conversion hanger does move it forward I believe.
Also, having the longer shackle increases the distance from hanger to hanger when the shackle is considered an extension of the spring at max droop (making the arc longer)