Electrical 1985 CJ7 needs a lot of help

Electrical 1985 CJ7 needs a lot of help

AndyCJ7

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Location
Bonita Springs FL
Vehicle(s)
'85 CJ7, 258 and a bunch of unknowns
I have a 1985 CJ7 that's had some modifications done to it by previous owners. The engine and mechanicals are mostly stock but all the emissions components have been removed.

The wiring is a complete mess. There are free wires hanging in the engine bay, zip ties holding some things in place, wires outside of looms everywhere, etc. Most of the lights work, except for one of the front turn signals (it's not the bulb). The voltmeter gauge works. There are aftermarket mechanical gauges that don't work, and the factory oil pressure gauge has been replaced with a printed piece of paper. There's an aftermarket tach that works and the speedometer moves but I haven't driven it enough to know how accurate it is.

The vacuum system in the Chilton's manual looks pretty complex, but mine looks a lot different. I have a single vacuum line to the distributor and nothing else. There are no EGR solenoids, charcoal canisters, or anything else. The fuel vapor return system is gone as well.

It has a duraspark-II ignition - I'm pretty sure, at least. The white wire that connects to the ignition module seems to be one of the wires that ends in the engine bay. It's not connected to anything. I'm not sure what it's supposed to be connected to but it seems to run fine without it.

I've driven it around on some short trips. Fuel drains back into the tank pretty quick so if it sits for a few days it takes a bit to start. I drove it once about 20-30 minutes and it just lost power and died and wouldn't restart. It kind of seemed like vapor lock to me. Once it cools off it's fine. How likely is it that the missing fuel vapor system is why it doesn't like to run for too long?

I would like to upgrade to power brakes. Does anyone have any information on converting to the teardrop style intake to make room for the booster and master cylinder (without spending a ton of money)? I also notice that the front brake line from the master has been replaced (with a hand-bent, coil-less piece) and the rear one looks pretty weak in places. I probably will replace the whole brake system. Any tips/advice on that?
 
Electrical 1985 CJ7 needs a lot of help
At a crossroads is a good way to put it. My goal with this is to fix what's broken and get it to the point I can drive it without making sure I have my AAA card in my wallet.

My plan for now is to restore the fuel system to stock. I'll need to drop the tank (fun!) and run new vapor and fuel lines. I also started on the power steering system today. I noticed the belt was loose and it would shriek sometimes under load. I tried to tighten it and saw that both aluminum brackets were broken. A PO had tried to weld the brackets but didn't have any idea what they were doing. I started to take it apart and found a mix of different size, thread pitch, and metric/standard bolts holding the pump in place. New brackets from ebay are on the way and I'll get the bolt situation sorted out.

I'm convinced whoever worked on this before me was a complete idiot or just didn't care at all. Every time I touch something, I find stuff that's done wrong. And not a little wrong.

Turn signal and ignition switches are a good idea. I didn't think about that. I'll order them now. I almost ordered a new fuel pump for it, but after reading the reviews of name brand fuel pumps where they fail after 500 miles or 500 yards, I think I'll stick with what works for now.

I would order a carb kit, but I still don't know what carb I have. I posted pics above in this thread to help ID.

The wiring is such a mess and this is my first CJ. I'm having a hard time figuring what's factory and what's not. I'm leaning more towards replacing the wiring harness.
 
I also noticed that the heater core has been bypassed. Two of the hoses are capped off which I'm sure doesn't let coolant circulate properly. One capped off hose come off the back of the intake and the other one comes out in between the thermostat housing and the alternator. I live in south Florida and I don't need a heater. Should I connect these two hoses together?
 
The front power steering bracket (the stamped steel one with four holes in it) bolts on to the front of the engine. One of the bolts is broken off and it looks like it's in the water pump. Is it easier to remove the broken bolt from the water pump or change the water pump? The pump doesn't have any play in it at all right now but the bolt broke such that it's going to need an extractor. There's nothing of the bolt sticking out of the hole.
 
I also noticed that the heater core has been bypassed. Two of the hoses are capped off which I'm sure doesn't let coolant circulate properly. One capped off hose come off the back of the intake and the other one comes out in between the thermostat housing and the alternator. I live in south Florida and I don't need a heater. Should I connect these two hoses together?
They can stay capped / pypassed. The PO probably had a heater core leak and bypassed it.
 
The front power steering bracket (the stamped steel one with four holes in it) bolts on to the front of the engine. One of the bolts is broken off and it looks like it's in the water pump. Is it easier to remove the broken bolt from the water pump or change the water pump? The pump doesn't have any play in it at all right now but the bolt broke such that it's going to need an extractor. There's nothing of the bolt sticking out of the hole.
Is there any leak and or is the bolt used for any mounting? If not I would leave it alone.
 
At a crossroads is a good way to put it. My goal with this is to fix what's broken and get it to the point I can drive it without making sure I have my AAA card in my wallet.

My plan for now is to restore the fuel system to stock. I'll need to drop the tank (fun!) and run new vapor and fuel lines. I also started on the power steering system today. I noticed the belt was loose and it would shriek sometimes under load. I tried to tighten it and saw that both aluminum brackets were broken. A PO had tried to weld the brackets but didn't have any idea what they were doing. I started to take it apart and found a mix of different size, thread pitch, and metric/standard bolts holding the pump in place. New brackets from ebay are on the way and I'll get the bolt situation sorted out.

I'm convinced whoever worked on this before me was a complete idiot or just didn't care at all. Every time I touch something, I find stuff that's done wrong. And not a little wrong.

Turn signal and ignition switches are a good idea. I didn't think about that. I'll order them now. I almost ordered a new fuel pump for it, but after reading the reviews of name brand fuel pumps where they fail after 500 miles or 500 yards, I think I'll stick with what works for now.

I would order a carb kit, but I still don't know what carb I have. I posted pics above in this thread to help ID.

The wiring is such a mess and this is my first CJ. I'm having a hard time figuring what's factory and what's not. I'm leaning more towards replacing the wiring harness.
It happens - You'll like this thread... -->> PO did What?
 
That looks like a Chrysler model 2280 Holley 2 bbl Economaster carb. You'll need to pull the carb or use a mirror to locate the carb number, it's stamped on it some where. Probably a list 7890. Used during the mid 80's.

-->> https://www.carburetor-parts.com/2280-carburetor-rebuild-kit-k4394
-->> https://www.ebay.com/itm/274953230617
Cheapest -->> https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...-2bbl-2280-carburetor-tune-up-kit/wlk0/15702b

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I believe that blue wire from the "S" terminal on the solenoid going to the bulkhead connector on the firewall should be the one that goes in and under the dash to the starter switch. That would be the wire that connects to the "START" position on the starter switch to engage the solenoid. The blue wire from that 2-pin connector with the white coming in the other side of it and going to the ignition module is how the ignition module gets its signal that the engine is cranking. But if as you say that blue wire is "just ended" at the bulkhead connector on the firewall and does not pass through to the ignition switch, then a PO has connected some other wire to engage the solenoid when the key is turned to "START". That would also seem to indicate that your ignition module is not getting the signal to know when the engine is cranking. That would make for hard/failed starting.

You may be best to get a new wiring harness from Painless or another. I actually pulled my three harnesses (engine bay, under dash, and rear) and re-worked them myself on the dining room table with an electrical meter, a soldering iron, and heat shrink tubing. But I have an electrical background and lots of CJ wiring experience (owned 3 CJs for a total of about 30 years), plus I was making custom changes/additions (LED conversions, keyless/remote start, switched from manual to auto trans with different BU light and neutral safety switches, dual batteries, digital gauge setup, fuel injection, etc). But for someone not that familiar with the wiring, reading schematic diagrams, and using an electrical meter to trace stuff out, you'll probably end up chasing electrical gremlins for a long time trying to deal with all the unknowns from one or more prior owners of your rig.

Brand new harnesses from Painless or Omix or Centech Wiring are indeed pricey, but nice. But some used OEM ones are available on eBay for $100 - $150. One example: eBay link to CJ harness
I've done several and I liked them.
 
Then I would try and replace it.
Right, so here's my question: Is it easier to replace the water pump or try to extract the broken bolt?

I've been lucky enough to live in salt-free climates most of my life, and while I have a fair amount of experience working on vehicles, I haven't ever had to remove a broken rusty bolt like that. I don't even have an extractor set.

Couple of pics:

IMG_5181.jpeg
IMG_5185.jpeg
 
That looks like a Chrysler model 2280 Holley 2 bbl Economaster carb. You'll need to pull the carb or use a mirror to locate the carb number, it's stamped on it some where. Probably a list 7890. Used during the mid 80's.
It's huge knowing what carb I have. Thank you for this post!
 
Right, so here's my question: Is it easier to replace the water pump or try to extract the broken bolt?

I've been lucky enough to live in salt-free climates most of my life, and while I have a fair amount of experience working on vehicles, I haven't ever had to remove a broken rusty bolt like that. I don't even have an extractor set.

Couple of pics:

View attachment 77742
View attachment 77743
That doesn't look bad. I would get some extractors, drill ALL the way through so all pressure is relieved, spray with PB Blaster and finally heat the outside of the flange. The bolt should almost fall out.
 
^^^ do the above and then if you got a Dremel see if you can make a cut into the broke bolt and use a short regular screwdriver.
 
I do have a dremel. That's a good idea. I cut a slot into the back on it but I couldn't get a good enough angle on it to get it out with a screwdriver. However, given what I've found under literally every rock with this jeep, my plan is now to just change the water pump, thermostat, radiator hoses, and other coolant hoses. I want this to be reliable and my experience with the fuel system has shown me that I can't trust anything on this jeep unless I took it apart and fixed it myself.

For example... the power steering pump. Since the one bolt was broken off, the PO's plan was to just torque the other bolt down hard enough to break both aluminum brackets. But we can't get them from a junkyard, let's just JB weld them back together even though that won't hold for more than 5 miles. Then let's just throw the whole mess into the jeep as-is and ignore the shrieking from the belt when we try to turn left.

I could never do this to a vehicle.

Anyway, the plan is to finish rebuilding the fuel system, replace the power steering brackets so we can properly adjust the belt, drain and flush the coolant system and replace the cooling system, and then maybe drive it around for a while before I tackle the wiring issues. I'd like to get all the gauges and lights working 100% and add a factory clock and tachometer to the factory dash. Some of the brake lines aren't factory and aren't done correctly (no coil in the front line) so I'd like to eventually do a power brake conversion and replace those lines.
 
They can stay capped / pypassed. The PO probably had a heater core leak and bypassed it.

I feel like I need address this. I'm all but certain that this jeep suffers from vapor lock because of the symptoms I described in the OP. Are you saying the the fact the coolant wasn't flowing through the intake manifold didn't contribute to the heat build-up in the carb that eventually caused the vapor lock?

I plan to run new heater hoses so that coolant flows through the intake manifold and I bet that's going to keep the carb a lot cooler.
 
Vapor lock does not happen in the carburetor or intake plenum.
 
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I feel like I need address this. I'm all but certain that this jeep suffers from vapor lock because of the symptoms I described in the OP. Are you saying the the fact the coolant wasn't flowing through the intake manifold didn't contribute to the heat build-up in the carb that eventually caused the vapor lock?

I plan to run new heater hoses so that coolant flows through the intake manifold and I bet that's going to keep the carb a lot cooler.
The coolant lines are to warm the intake during cold weather to stop fuel puddling and to keep the fuel atomized during normal operations. If you have vapor lock, carb soak / the manifold temp with coolant will still be 180 deg. + and not be the problem. Check this by pulling the air cleaner and look for an accelerator pump squirt when hot.

Good thread here. -->> Question about 258 Aluminum Intake Manifolds
Google search. -->> https://www.google.com/search?q=amc...2j0i30i546.27950j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
I feel like I need address this. I'm all but certain that this jeep suffers from vapor lock because of the symptoms I described in the OP. Are you saying the the fact the coolant wasn't flowing through the intake manifold didn't contribute to the heat build-up in the carb that eventually caused the vapor lock?

I plan to run new heater hoses so that coolant flows through the intake manifold and I bet that's going to keep the carb a lot cooler.
What Patric said, vapor lock happens due to fuel percolating in the fuel line, a dual outlet fuel filter where it can run back to the tank will alleviate that(also don't route fuel lines near engine/exhaust manifold), But yes, hook up your cooling system correctly, it should never be capped off and will heat the manifold and possibly boil the fuel in the carburetor's bowl, causing hard start till the bowl refills. If heater core bypass is required it should only be looped back to itself right before entering the heater core still allowing the coolant to continue it's flow.
 

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