who the hell whats a jeep in the middle of winter that explains y jeep sells are down
i sure hope jepp doesn't mess up the wrangle they just need to add ore options such as as gps system that we can use off road. and to get rid of platsic maybe jeep could give u stock winches or snorkals.

It is presumptuous, perhaps even humorous, to assume DC actually reads this site, let alone makes any meaningful decisions based on the comments. But, if you are reading DC, how about providing us with the same options you provide the Europeans, such as a six speed manual with the diesel. We North Americans would also like to avail ourselves of the improved fuel economy and performance -- note DC that 47% of the VWs sold in Canada are diesels. Or, how about, preempting the Europeans and giving us a six speed manual with diesel for the Wrangler before them!

here is my comment

Hey Jason - I have a 03 Rubicon and a 04 Silverado. The market for the Rubicon -- trade for a Grand Cherokee was the softest. The trade for the Silverado for an SS was much better. I disagree that GM is soft. I will probably get one of each -- maybe wait for the gladiator and rebates. Started buy jeeps with a new 1974 Renegade -- I trade every 1 to 2 years and have owned one ever since 74 - CJ's Scrambler,Larado,Sahara,Rubicon.

Please go to gm to buy your next suv.....The bigger the rebate the more it affects resale value, hence the reason why gm's are soft as mash potatoes on resale value!!!!

HEADLINES READ
The sky is falling! Jeep looms on the edged of death. Sales are down because "real jeepers" vow to buy no more.


I think is has more to do with the rise in fuel prices and the popularity slide of the SUV.

Don't get to hung up on the specs yet, as this is just a concept, and there are no plans to build the Gladiator. There was an article that said it could hold a 8 X 4 sheet. Some interestings specs:

Bed Length: 5’ 8" (1,725 mm)
(midgate expanded) – 6’ 8" (2,026 mm)
(expanded w/ tailgate down - minimum) - 8’ 11" (2,723 mm)


So keep in mind, the 8 foot length is only when you drop the tail gate...

Again, the Gladiator is a concept, and not even built off any real production platform. Rumor has it that this is not the new TK platform, but something close. The TK is rumored to be about 5-6 inches wider than the current TJ, and the Gladiator is over 10 inches wider than the TJ.

My chart with dimensions looked really good when I typed it.
oh well...

OK, i just went to the JEEP website to look at the JEEP GLADIATOR photos, and I'm like, 'okay, cool.' THEN I click on the JEEP HURRICAINE photos, and I just have one word to say....


...why...

Why is there 4 wheel Independent Suspension...?
Why is there only 2 seats and no doors...?
Why are there 2 (TWO) Engines...?
WHY..WHY...WHY...

(although, if JEEP were to build a 4 Wheel Independent Suspension system, that would be the way to go, just lose one engine and put a HEMI up front...)

But, even still...why...

With world sales of Jeep doing well, I don’t think we need to plan Jeeps funeral. The Grand has so much more competition than ever before, and the Liberty has plenty of competition too. Ford has been very aggressive in selling the Escape, so the Liberty has some fierce competition to deal with in the US.

The next few years will be interesting for Jeep as they begin to expand. It will be interesting to see if the expansion really helps, or will having a larger line cost them in the long run. To build and support diverse products in the Jeep line may actually hurt them.

The Commander is simply an off shoot of the Grand. The platform and other major components are shared, so this vehicle won’t kill the budget. The Scout will probably have little to do with any Jeep components, so this vehicle actually may be more costly for them. The Scout is planned to be offered only with a single speed 4x4 transfer case (no low range). The engine is probably not the ones used in the Liberty either.

The Scout is still basically a 4x4 car, not a real off-roader like the Wrangler. It may not use the current Neon platform, but the next generation Neon platform will still be a small car platform, not a body on frame like the Wrangler. Just because they call it ‘Scout’ don’t confuse it with the classic International Scout.

My guess is we will not see many variations to the new Wrangler platform, unless it sells well. For each variation, there is a cost, and for a vehicle that sells less than 100,000 units a year, I don’t see a lot of investment in variations, except for trim packages. The Gladiator is a cool concept, but Jeep suits have already said before there is not a big enough market for small pickup trucks. I think the only reason we got the Unlimited was to keep the TJ Wrangler alive for its final years.

A low cost ‘Rubicon’ version of the Wrangler to me seems unlikely. How many would actually buy a stripped down 4 banger Wrangler and add $3K for a Rubicon package? Don’t misunderstand, there definitely is a market, but it’s too small for Jeep to make much profit from it. Stripped down models don’t make the manufacturer much money. I don’t think we will see a Rubicon Scout, except for a trim package.

Diesel technology needs to prove it self to the US market before Jeep or anyone is going to offer a wide variety of Diesels in their automotive lines. Jeep is playing it safe by first testing the waters of a Diesel in the Liberty. Just because diesels sell well in Europe, is no guarantee they will do well in the US. Most US drivers don’t know the difference between a V-6 and an in-line 6 engine. Think how many drivers would get confused when they have to pull up to a diesel fuel pump instead of the regular gas ones?

To ScramblerWishes: Glad to hear your Jeep has arrived, and thanks for the info on rebates. My Unlimited still does not have a build date after 2 months of being in the system! I suspect ordering the Rubicon version is what is delaying my Unlimited. I call Customer assistance almost every other day, so I think they are getting tired of hearing from me.

I have several comments here.

- December is traditionally an overall poor sales
month with holidays, bad weather, vacations.
Over-all the year wasn't that bad considering.

- This is an exciting time for Jeep despite a few
of the crotchety folks that post here. I think
DC, in particular the Germans, struggled with
the Jeep brand, what it means, its customers,
marketplace and panache. The fact the several
new models are on the way means a commitment
to investment has been made. They are laying out
some serious cash to make this happen, make no
mistake about it. This is very good for Jeep.

- I haven't seen much on the Scout but I wonder if
the Scout will be a separate line or more
spartan versions of the new Wrangler but with
the top-of-the-line mechanical features marketed
and positioned differently. This is an area
where I think they made a mistake with the
Rubicon where they treated it like a luxury car
instead of a rugged Jeep. A "non-luxury" version
probably would have sold surprisingly well, too.

- It is exceedingly difficult to design and
manufacture an automobile that appeals to both
men and women. A previous post mentioned the
mix of the Liberty and the Cherokee. Women are
a huge part of the car buying public now and it
is suicidal to ignore them. Jeep has tra-
ditionally appealed more to men than women.
They have to be very careful in how they widen
their base and design and introduce new models.

- FYI, I own 2 Wranglers, a 95 and 01 and all the
women of driving age in my family like to drive
them. The teen girls love the top off.

The fact that the Gladiator's bed can be extended to over 8' makes it very competitive. Do you know the width of the bed (ie, is it big enough to easily hold 4 x 8 sheets of plywood?)?

Also, while the diesel / six-speed combo is great, I hope that Jeep would also make an automatic available for those who want to use the vehicle for towing. An integrated trailer braking system like the one found in the new F-150 Super Duty would be an added bonus.

I was curious to see the size of this truck compared with a Dodge Dakota and an Unlimted.
Here are the dimensions I came up with.
Not as small as I thought. Much more usefull as a truck than a Scrambler would be. With the window down and the back seat folded down the Gladiator was 2" longer than the Dakota's.


Gladiator Unlimited Dakota

Wheelbase 138.4" 103.4" 131.3"
Length 205.0" 156.4" 218.8"
Width 76.6" 66.7" 74.3"
Height 74.8" 70.0" 68.7"
Max Bed
length *80.0" N/A 78.0"

*back seat folded down.

There are many reasons that auto manufacturers develop concept vehicles. One is to display future vehicle models, another is to research new technologies, and lastly there is media attention.

The Gladiator falls mainly in the first category. Even if it isn't built (and I'm sure most of us hope it is), it is most likely a good glimpse of what the next generation Wrangler styling will look like.

The Hurricane on the other hand was developed for the latter two reasons. DCX obtained several patents on technologies used in this concept. Also the media attention gathered from this puts all eyes on Jeep and increases brand awareness.

Chrysler did something similar last year with the show-stopping ME Four Twelve supercar. It was a vehicle that was so radical compared to other Chrysler offerings (not to mention it outpowered DCX's own Mercedes SLR McLaren).

I have to respectfully disagree with S
AMBLERKEN on the issue of variations of the TK Wrangler theme...

If anything, I think that multiple variations of the WRANGLER would ensure that at least 100,000 units are produced. The key to success is flexibility within the platform...let the customer be king for once.

No single variation of the TK platform may sell over 100,000 units, but the total sales from all variations will definitely sell better than any one single variation...Simply put, the sum of the parts is greater than the sum of the whole...What we will be looking at in total sales will be for the TK PLATFORM, not the WRANGLER 2DR model, or the pickup SUT model, etc.

And, one more thing, whatever happened to the WILLYS concept??? I would much rather see that reach production than the Compass concept...And for that matter, I would much rather see that concept (WILLYS) named SCOUT.

From what I hear there are many surprises in the jeep line up????? Should be very exciting to see jeep expand and grow finally!!!

in that case, dcx send me a rubicon wrangler unlimited with the 5.9L 360 supercharged with 8" lift, front & rear winch, snorckel and a suitcase of cash in small bills to my driveway. throw in the 6 speed manual and i'll give you ten bucks for it

here is my comment

Do people from Daimler/Chrysler read these comments?? Do they even care what the people say who purchase their products?

I think Jeep sales will not rise much as the new Grand Cherokee is very average, the styling is too much like a Durango, which is ugly and all the cheerleaders have bought their Liberty, so sales will fall there as well. Let's hope they don't ruin the Wrangler in 2007 but if they continue to raise the price on it like they have been, sales will fall there as well.

The way I read the article, it lookls like the Jeep Brand was down only 3% as a whole for the year.

The only thing that slow December sales suggest in this case is that there were strong sales in the previous 11 months. Yes the GC is down, but this is due to the transition from WJ to WK. I am seeing WJ's offered fully loaded for less than a base Liberty, so of course ther are going to be bargain hunters. But overall, it looks as if JEEP is in pretty good shape.

No need for the Doom Mongers like OOJ to go hide in a cave and seal it up with plastic wrap and duct-tape.

I am looking forward to the Commander, the TK, and the Scout. We had a Scout in the 80's, I actually miss it, and am glad JEEP is bringing back another classic nameplate, it's a good way for JEEP to enter the sub-Wrangler market without watering down the classic JEEP nameplates, as the Scout was more utility-based, with off-road capabilities, but never claiming to be absolute top-dog of the off-road world.

I would like to be fair to OOJ and say that die-hards like him are important to the JEEP legacy, but unfortunately, every time I get to that point, he goes and sticks his tire-tread hippie-sandals in his mouth, with his foot still attached...(when Beer was Beer?!?!?!???)

Oh well, mabye when the TK comes out, he can relax a little, If the Gladiator is an Indicator (get it?), it looks even more CJ than the TJ.

The hurricane video looks great. I hope some of that technology makes its way into next generation Jeep.

Regarding the Gladiator: OH HELL YEAH!!!! I only hope and pray DCX isn't dangling a carrot in front of us just to stow it away in some musty warehouse without ever producing it. Anyone remember the Jeepster concept from a few years ago? Jeep is finally showing something to get excited about. Now to start saving my pennies...

By the way, Eddo definitely has the right idea. Let the folks at Jeep know how you feel. With enough "market enthusiasm" they just may listen to us and build the Galdiator.

I too like the Gladiator concept and wish Jeep would build it.

Jeep has some additonal photos of the Gladiator on their web site, including one that shows the 'doggie' door:

http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/gladiator/gallery.html

Amazing how similar the Gladiator looks like the AEV Brute:

http://www.aev-conversions.com/Vehicle_Brute.html

Sure seems Jeep uses AEV to come up with their concepts.....

If Jeep actually decides to build the Gladiator they guaranteed at least one buyer. :-)

Mike #4, I agree if Jeep was able to make several variations of the Wrangler, they could hit the 100,000 mark, but there is a cost to each variation, and the ‘suits’ and ‘bean counters’ will likely kill off the variations.

In production, there is a way out of how many options or variations, or even color choices to a product you can make and still maintain a profit. When Jeep decided to build the Unlimited, there was a lot of debate and research in how to do this. Granted, the Unlimited is simply a stretched version of the current TJ, but modifications had to made to the assembly line, paint facility, and many other areas of the assembly process to accommodate the Unlimited. If variations were not so expensive, then the pickup truck version of the Unlimited would have been produced.

Chrysler is already looking at reducing variations in their line by eliminating 2-door coupes. Vehicle sharing is also being planned for Jeep as the Scout will have a Dodge twin, and the next generation Liberty is supposed to have a Dodge cousin. Additionally, the TK body will not even be built by Jeep as it will be assembled by another company. Jeep may find it harder to convince a third party to make these variations. Sadly, DCX is looking at cost reductions, which could dampen the chances of numerous variations to their product line.

I suspect Jeep will have its hands full in making the 2-door and 4-door Wranglers, as well as coordinate these new partners to meet production schedules and profit margins. Hopefully I will be proven wrong as I too would like to see many variations off the Wrangler. Time will tell.

Speaking of variations, if you want to see a video of the Gladiator concept, take a look at:

http://www.dcxmediaservices.com/videoptrs/wms/dctv/Adhoc/Jan05/Jeep_Gladiator_Hi.wvx

Photos Of The Jeep Gladiator (Source: Detroit News):

http://www.rubicontrail.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=181

The AutoWeek real-life photo of the Jeep Gladiator Concept is
simply stunning! Without question, it is a classic form of a
modern, 21st Century Jeep.

Pics of the actual Gladiator are up on autoweeks Detroit show coverage site!!!!!!!

Ok...Mabye someone slipped too much Spanish Fly in my Beer, but for once (write this date down in your diaries with your fuzzy pink powder puff pens, girls) I ACTAULLY agree with Only One Jeep...

Instead of offering just 'packages' on WRANGLERS, I think that ANY part available on ANY WRANGLER should be able to be checked off and ordered like a grocery list...

4Cyl or 6Cyl?
Gas or Diesel?
Manual or Automatic?
Standard Transfer Case or Rock Track TC?
Standard Axles or Heavy Duty Axles?
Spartan Interior or Leather Interior?
Throw-away tires/rims or 31-inch Factory tires/rims?
Center console or no center console?
U get the picture...

I understand that a WRANGLER is a mass-produced product, and readily available models have to grace the showroom, and I understand that high-end models like the RUBICON ar mass-produced to make the maximum profit, but for those of us who know what we want and don't want, and are willing to wait, the option should be available without penalty.

On another note...
The Jeep mags are all calling for 2 speed low range transfer cases to be produced, not just for JEEPS, but for all 4x4's. I.e. 2.72:1 for sand/snow, 4.0:1 for Mud, rocks, etc, and a combined 6.72:1 for ultra-low crawling, or 1:1 4-High gear.

Makes sense to me...sounds more versatile.

DCX has made it clear that Jeep products were at the tail end of their "product blitz" plan and the flat sales for Jeep pretty much show that. Until the Commander, Scout and the new Wrangler derivatives arrive I think Jeep sales will stay pretty much where they are.

Scrambler Ken... My Wrangler Unlimited arrived at the dealership after the new year. I had ordered it under the $500 rebate package which ended at the end of last year. The dealer told me to wait to pick it up because new incentives were coming. The package now is a $500 rebate and $500 cash back. The cash back is only available if you finance the vehicle.

That's ALL I have been saying right along.....Bullet Bob and Mike #2 bring up the meat of the matter...A Basic Rugged Rubicon is EXACTLY it...would've sold great!! Utilitarian Jeeps are what MADE these vehicles what they are and it's quite possible that alot of Jeepers here still want that.."without all the bells and whistles"- I know; I am....DCX should offer A Choice.....ON ALL Jeep platforms...'cept Liberty(not my favorite)...

I have to agree with BULLET BOB, that a non-luxury "BABY-CON" Rubicon would have sold well...

4-cyl(2.4l TURBO, I.E. Neon SRT) , 6-spd manual trans, 4.0:1 Rock Track Transfer Case, Rubicon suspension, dana 44 axles (lose the air-lockers, put in some true-tracs), 31 inch tires.

Mabye a special edition before the TJ becomes the TK?

Or mabye the TK???OK???

The Scout will closely resemble the Compass concept that was debuted a couple of years ago. It will be built on a chassis shared with the replacement for the Dodge Neon. (Please note, the new Jeep is not going to be a Dodge Neon. The Neon is being discontinued and a wagon-based crossover is being introduced in its place.)

The Compass concept featured a 3.7L V6, over 8" of ground clearance, IFS, and a washable interior.

here is my comment

I can't wait for the 4 door TK to come out! If it does.

The Liberty is indeed decidedly more feminine than the Cherokee ... whereas the Cherokee's buyer demographics were 58% male and 42% female, the Liberty is reversed at 45% male and 55% female. Hence, we have seen DC tweek the 05 Liberty's cutsie design in an attempt to appeal to the male buyer. But, I suspect they have lost much of the former Cherokee male market to perhaps the Wrangler, where 73% of the buyers are male, or perhaps to other brands/models, such as the unquestionably Cherokee oriented and male focused xterra.

I'd be hard-pressed to believe that Jeep doesn't look at this site. Do a search for "jeep news" on Google, and this site comes up BEFORE Jeep.com! That says a lot.

I am sure DC makes all of there product decisions based on what is written on this site.

Things might not be all that bad. World sales of the Wrangler and Liberty are up. Take a look at:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050105/BUSINESS02/501050331&SearchID=73195168318364

snip....

Worldwide sales of the Wrangler were up 8 percent to 89,043.

DaimlerChrysler AG sold 225,386 Jeep Libertys worldwide last year, up 3 percent from 2003

end snip...

and it sounds like Jeep might have some better incentives coming...

"The automaker yesterday redeployed an incentive program offering both 0 percent financing and cash back"

Although when you visit the Jeep web site, I do not see the Wrangler listed with any incentives.

If they would get off the dime and give incentives similar to GM 2,000 + 1,500 loyalty for a total of $3,500 I would buy a new cherokee!! If not I guess I will leave chrysler for a GM product.

here is my comment

I keep hearing, and I agree, that the KJ is too feminine. Jeep has tried to rectify this by offering the Wrangler Unlimited to entice the old XJ faithful who didn't like the KJ. Then they tried to change the look of the Renegade.

I think that auto companies, in general, pander to the press who always write great things about IFS. It shows that they don't know what they are talking about when it comes to off-roading.

Hopefully, with these new Jeeps models comming out in the future, there will be some positive direction with Jeep. Hopefully SFA will not be dumped like it was in the Liberty and the Grand. And hopefully they will improve the exterior and interior design these vehicles.

I'm tired of the cheap plastic look.

People say that there is no inovation that can be done with SUVs anymore. Everything has already been done. What about a vehicle that can go off-road that can be coverted to a pickup, SUT, or SUV? What about a small pickup? What about leading the pack again instead of following?

Jeep is on the verge of having the most products it has ever had.
A new Commander later this year and a Scout/Compass vehicle to follow.
Then in a couple a years a new Wrangler with all kinds of variations along with a possible truck.
I thought I wanted to trade in my 2000 GC for a 2005 but I think I am going to wait a little longer to see what all my choices are.
Maybe I will want a Commander!

... This is what happens when too many of the huddled masses decide that Jeeps are cool..and need to buy one for visual character...and along the way force the engineers and designers to build a Jeep that is more ergonomic,kinder and gentler...To build a Jeep that "rides more like a car" and to promote it's image as a accessory instead of the workhorse utilitarian it was MEANT to be...

Looking at the sales figures for December, the KJ was up, it was the TJ that was down in sales. That would seem to be the opposite of what you are insuating here. WK doesn't count yet, it is still too new to get an accurate month to month sales comparison.

WOW!!!! WE had a record month....I sold 10 jeeps alone...sounds like the dealers were in holiday mode?????? A sleep at the wheel.....

I love the 2005 JGC. I'm just waiting for DHS before purchasing it; maybe others are as well, hence the reason for the slow December sales.

I guess this is why i was able to pick up an 05 rubi unlimited with a MSRP 30,454 for $25,884. It was like taking candy from a baby they wanted to give it away so badly.......

......and rednecks were rednecks.

Good! Glad. Maybe the "homogonization" of Jeep will end if DCX sells it..or better yet Kills it. If Jeep can't survive as Jeep alone;
If Jeep must water up its' product line;
If Jeep doesn't stay true to its' heritage;
This is what happens when too many of the huddled masses decide that Jeeps are cool..and need to buy one for visual character...and along the way force the engineers and designers to build a Jeep that is more ergonomic,kinder and gentler...To build a Jeep that "rides more like a car" and to promote it's image as a accessory instead of the workhorse utilitarian it was MEANT to be.
To see a Jeep promoted and advertised as "The off-road legend continues on-road"..it's time to stop the madness and END it NOW....Let Jeep ride into the sunset...when beer was beer...Men were Men...and Jeeps were Jeeps....

Ok, the Gladiator is way cool. I didn't even think I was in a the market for a truck and if they produce this I think I would need one.
Since they are using the Gladiator name for the concept they more than likely wouldn't use it for a production vehicle.
Do you suppose this could be the next Commanche?

Jeep Gladiator and Jeep Hurricane introduction videos below:

http://www.dcxmediaservices.com/videoptrs/wms/dctv/Adhoc/
Jan05/

Thanks for the gladiator links. If jeep does built it they have another buyer here. Just for the heck of it I'm going to e-mail Jeep and tell them how much I like the gladiator concept and would purchase one if produced. Maybe if they get enough e-mail they will strongly consider it.

as they say at the GM plant, " Everybody who wants a new vehicle already has one". With all the rebates, incentives, extras everybody and their dog has been giving, anyone who can afford a new vehicle got theirs already, leaving less demand. DaimlerChrysler sales are bucking the trend, Jeep is following it.