I'm doing it, i'm buying a welder!

[kj 7]

All right. I've saved up for a welder in which I will purchase within the week (otherwise the money may find another use in the form of size 6 women's shoes ). I'm in need of a welder for sheet metal, tube work, frame work, bumpers and welding spider gears (poor man's spool). I've used several migs before & have been lucky on dialing in the correct wire speed and amperage but do not know what to look for in purchasing one. I do have a 220 hookup in my garage so that's probably what I will go for.

Here are the ones I'm looking at with local prices. All three come with the gauges to convert to gas. I can purchase these all locally with good parts support:

1. Lincoln 180HD - $625

2. Hobart 187 Handler - $629 - I've read up a bit on these and it seems it is made by Miller. If read a lot of people suggesting this one but also, from what I've read, the feed mechanism isn't very dependable and can fail due to cheaper plastic components. Anyone have one of these and can confirm/dispute this?

3. Clarke 180en - $589 w/cart - It is off brand, but I've read that they're actually not too bad. Unfortunately I've read the company went out of business recently so don't know if a warranty will hold up. Probably won't go with this one for that reason.

So, are these overkill for what I'm wanting to do? Will probably just be used on automotive projects or things around the house, not building a bridge or pipeline!

If you were going to purchase a welder for the things I'm gonna use it for, would you buy one of these three and why?

thanks

 

[IOPort51]

I am not a big fan of MIG welders but the Lincoln or the Hobart, flip a coin. as long as you are going with the 220v you should be OK. Use flux core whenever possible, especially structural stuff, frame and such.
an old trick is to put a wiper pad on the wire just after it leaves the rolls and before it goes into the conduit. hold it in place with a large spring paper clip. If you can keep the wire clean and keep dirt out of the conduit it will work better for longer.

 

[kj 7]

Thanks for the tip. Will that hang-up the feeding pressure? I'm having a tough time imagining that wiper pad set up, but I'll come up with something.

The Hobart is what I'm leaning towards. I like the orange and gray color scheme :laugh:


How much does a tank of Argon/co2 usually run and where would I get it filled? Other than a welding supply store, anywhere else carry it?

 

[CJ]

Miller all the way for me... The local store has it for $750! Cheaper then I bought my 185 for!

Miller - MIG Welders - Millermatic® 180 with Auto-Set™

 

[Thorwon]

I agree with IO I'm not a big fan of migs. I use a Lincoln 225 I bought off a local trader list ($180). I can weld sheet metal or any heavy steel with it. I use 6011 or 6013 rods for most general welding but go to 7018 or 7024 rods for frame and other high strength needs.
I love these buzz boxes, it's what I learned on many years ago. They are cheep and very dependable.
I have used mig machines and they are OK but very finicky IMHO. They do give you a very clean weld but I just can't see the puddle very good.
I have a small 110 wire machine I use for quick light welding but that is all.
I have a Lincoln 185 buzz box I picked up at a local auction that I'm going to sell ($140). I haven't plugged it up and checked it out yet but I've never found a "dead" one.

 

[IOPort51]

talk to your welding supplier about a wiper pad he will have a special pad(lasts a lifetime) and show you where to place it. Home despot and Lowe's are carrying gas here I don't have a clue what it costs. another tip, turn the regulator off when you are not using it for more than a few minutes. flow meters leak and AG is expensive and hard to find at 1:00 Saturday morning. never leave it on overnight or you may find yourself with no gas.

 

[BajaEdition]

personally I would go with the hobart 187
yes it is made by Miller and will have many miller parts in it
look at it as a no frills miller.
A great welder and will last a long time.
Just remember to use up a few spools of wire practicing on a bunch of scrap metal and you will be getting good penetration and start to make pretty welds.

 

[kj 7]

Thanks for the input, Baja.

I did go ahead and get the Hobart 187 Handler. It had the most stout looking feed mechanism, I liked the feel of the trigger and I liked the feel of the amperage knob as it clicked to different settings. I know that sounds stupid but sometimes those types of things conotate a level of quality in a product.

Now, I need to do lots n' lots of practice, research and read Baja's welding tips .

I was really nervous about purchasing a welder but knew I had too. You know that uneasy feeling you get when you make a big purchase and you start thinking; "I hope I don't lose my job next week" or "Man, I hope the hot water heater or dryer doesn't go out next week". Well, I didn't really get that feeling with this purchase 'cause I knew I needed it and could potentially use it for the better part of the rest of my life.

 

[kj 7]

IO, I can get a small tank filled with Argon at O'reillys for around $70.

I know all about shutting off that regulator when not in use. In college I made a few things for my jeep with our shop welder like quick disco's, a CB/Speaker rack, tube fenders. I was the only one who used it regularly then some chick used it for some stupid art project and left it on, only to find all the argon escaped. Our department was going through tough times so they never had it refilled.

 

[BajaEdition]

I was really nervous about purchasing a welder but knew I had too. You know that uneasy feeling you get when you make a big purchase and you start thinking; "I hope I don't lose my job next week" or "Man, I hope the hot water heater or dryer doesn't go out next week". Well, I didn't really get that feeling with this purchase 'cause I knew I needed it and could potentially use it for the better part of the rest of my life.

There you go, I think a good tool purchase is a plus, you can always use it and it really saves you money in the long run, I am not a professional welder by any means, although I can make a dollar more an hour when welding up a bracket or two at work. (Union recognizes this and has set up that rule) but I basically learned because I needed stuff welded all the time. I still cuss when I look at my welds but then I am comparing them to professional welds. Anyway a good tool is an investment and after a while you are ahead finacially over the many times you would have had to pay someone to do the job.

 

[IOPort51]

Now that you have it you will discover things you need to do with it. It's like a new world opening up. now start looking for a torch kit if you don't have one already.
I think a torch and a welding machine are the two most basic and important "Big boy toys" there are. once you own them you wonder how you got along with out them.
not to mention your social status just went up by an order of magnitude. You will hear that hallowed phrase "If I pick up a twelve pack can you tack this back together for me?". My advice at this point is to hold out for wild turkey, its a sellers market and any real shop will get a c note for an intelligent conversation. It isn't usually hard to pick up enough side work to cover the cost of your expendables, gas and wire.

 

[BajaEdition]

Now that you have it you will discover things you need to do with it.

It isn't usually hard to pick up enough side work to cover the cost of your expendables, gas and wire.

so true and so easy, I think once a few guys find out you can weld, you will be getting request to fix this and that, I do not usually ask for a welders pay, just a 20 spot here or there to pay for the said consumables.

 

[kj 7]

All true. I still have a lot of learning to do before that comes .

I keep getting tons of really fine splatter. I'm starting with ground down clean surfaces, but just can't seem to stop the splatter. The thicker metal it does really well with not much spatter but thinner gauge metal splatters a lot with the amperage turned down to 1 or 2 and wire speed around 30-40. If I turn the amperage up it just burns right through.

 

[IOPort51]

All true. I still have a lot of learning to do before that comes .

I keep getting tons of really fine splatter. I'm starting with ground down clean surfaces, but just can't seem to stop the splatter. The thicker metal it does really well with not much spatter but thinner gauge metal splatters a lot with the amperage turned down to 1 or 2 and wire speed around 30-40. If I turn the amperage up it just burns right through.

Why do you think they are called a splatter matic??:laugh:

Way back just after they invented electricity I was taught that the easiest way to set a MIG was to set the amperage and then adjust the wire speed until it sounds like a strip of bacon landing in a hot skillet. Every amperage setting will have its optimal wire speed for a given wire size and shielding gas. The only variable you have control of is the wire speed.

Try turning down the wire speed without changing the amperage. This may reduce the splatter. Consistant arc length and length of wire from contact tip is a variable, the shorter the wire length the greater the amperage. Play with this and see how it works for you especially on sheet metal. The gas you use is a factor; pure argon is very smooth and nice to look at but is not the best penetration. Argon co2 mix is less expensive better penetration and a passable amount of splatter. My personal favorite is straight co2; it is not as pretty but the one to use for structural work and its cheep!

On a side note, one of my partners at work left a copy of Peterson’s 4 wheel and off road on my desk, January issue.
Check the article on the Hobart 180. I am sure there is a market for rechargeable flux core wire welders that you can carry on the trail; we will have to see how this works out for them. My attention was drawn to the mental midget that seems to be welding something on the AMC20 of a Jeep. This MIT reject is striking an arc much too close to the brake line, is wearing a pair of burning goggles and is wearing short pants and suede loafers. And on the opposite page they have plug for some ones graphically enhanced auto darkening welding helmets. What a rag!
I just bought my first auto darkening helmet this summer from HF. These things are great!! If I had one 30 years ago I wouldn’t be able to predict weather changes with a stiff neck.

 

[BajaEdition]

I think the sound of bacon is to much of a weak comparo
I try to say, listen to it sing, you want a very consistent sound, not a splattering sound . I cannot truely give a good website to listen to, however not to pimp the video but Rick Russell's video, "Learning To Weld" has a fantastic section on listening to mig welds. Sidekick Off Road Maps & Videos Your Best Source of Off Road Information
Splatter is also something that disapears as you learn to set up the machine. One of the hardest things I had to learn was not how to get good penentration, but how to fine tun a machine, I literally took a plate of 1/8 inch metal arouond 4 square feet and ran beads up and down it till I finally started listening and discovered that singing sound. Funny where breakthroughs come in anything, but mine was to stop trying to figure it out and just start enjoying. When I learned to weld, I was actually just messing around at a friends shop, he laughed at me and offered very little advice unless I asked. I would come over and try to fix something or fab something. His best bit of advice he would give was he welded me up 2 peices of metal together and said that is what a weld looks like, front and back. And he would tell me that I was trying to hard, it was not rocket science. I think he was afraid if I did not learn I would bug him for free welding forever. My first machine was put together from parts of 2 of his old machines, When I got a new machine I felt like a pro. I can also say, I own about 20 different plier clamps that I have found at swap meets and still source a lot of the tools that will just get beat up that way. I can see not reason I require to put most of those marks and welds on the tools when they will just get there anyway, and I can get them for lss than 1/2 price

 

[kj 7]

Thanks for the tips, guys. Gonna hit it again tonight.

 

[mylittlecj5]

So what are your feelings on this unit now? I'm getting ready to buy my next welder, and am leaning towards the Hobart 187 or 210. My budget got reduced (again) but I bet I can swing the 210's price if I get it on sale and get all the gift cards I've been asking for.

 

[CJ]

If you can afford the 210 - I would get it. They are both 210v welders, have the same duty cycle (30%), but the 210's is at a higher amperage. The 210 has a higher max amperage also.

The biggest difference is that the 210 is spool gun ready if you feel like tackling aluminum.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/

 

[mylittlecj5]

yea thats why I wanted it. I want to try aluminum welding someday, and the 210 seems like a better deal.
When I went before the CFO here originally, it was a pretty done deal, using our company bonus, Xmas gift cards, and a little savings. But over the last couple months, my funds have slowly eroded (before i got them even!) and I will have to wait to see what one I can get, if either one at all at this point.

 

[BajaEdition]

the 210 is a great machine, and being 240volt it really can put out the amperage. If you have the bucks I would get it.
Funny thing about welding i that a good welder can make any machine good, but a good machine can make you a good welder fast.