Diff axle question

[DB80CJ5]

I have an 80 CJ5, 20 years ago when I did a frame-off restoration on it, I took out the AMC20 rear diff and put in a Dana 44 from I think was out of a 76 CJ. I found an old post on here where a gentleman listed all the axle widths through the years and referenced a Jeepteck website. According to the website, all narrow tracks should be the same at 50.5 inches wheel to wheel. Along with the AMC20 rear-end. With the wide track starting in 81. However, I know my AMC20 was wider than the Dana 44 I installed because I had to run spacers to keep the same wheel-to-wheel width. I also have a Dana 44 out of a 76 mail jeep, that is the same width as the one I have currently in my jeep. I could swear back when I was building my CJ that starting around 73 every few years the width got wider by a couple of inches and I could only go back to a diff out of a 78 to match the width of my 80 Jeep? Am I nuts? I'm old so it's very possible. I need to replace the diff I currently have and I don't want to run spacers anymore so was trying to find a Dana 44 with the correct width, but I'm still not sure what years will work in my Jeep. I would not mind going to a wide track as 70 mph in my CJ is a bit hair raising. I have found a 76 scout I'm thinking about using for axle swap, but I have read the front end doesn't fit well? Has anyone done this swap? What issues did you run into? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[RangerRick]

@DB80CJ5
I have swapped all different kinds of axles in all different year Jeeps and your 1980 is a year and a half before wide track axles were slung under CJ's. The first year model that wide track axles were "officially" installed is supposed to be 1982 according to many sources but again, with an old Jeep that you may not be the original owner, anything is possible to be under it. My CJ for example had originally equipped WT AMC20 rear and WT Dana 30 front axle under it.

Scout axles are closer to WT or maybe even YJ width than your NT CJ. The fronts are hard to swap because of the caster angle of the knuckle or the "tilt" of the pivot axis (think bicycle forks for the front wheel raked forward at the bottom to promote steering stability and return to center). The proper way to swap an IH Scout axle would be to cut off and rotate the inner "C's" for the knuckles. This is a big job and I wouldn't do it unless it was a Dana 44 axle for the front and I already had the axle. Otherwise it is labor intense for the return on time investment as the axle isn't that much beefier because it is light duty compared to a Dana 44 out of a full-size Ford or GM truck.

The rear scout axle would be easy enough to install though because you have to cut and re-install the spring perches anyhow so not difficult to do.

Thought I'd answer you since it looks like nobody else did. Hope this helps a little bit.

RR

 

[RangerRick]

Default Jeep Axle Spec's
Axle Width Data

Factory tread with is not WMS to WMS. It's center of stock tire on stock wheel to the same on the other side. It depends on offset of wheels and several other factors. Tread width is usually narrower than WMS to WMS because of the off set the center of tire is farther inboard than WMS. Use this chart for comparison.

CJ8s can have both wide and narrow factory axles

The J-10 axle is wider than a NT and narrower than a WT.

'41 to 45 Jeep MB: 48.25"
'46 up CJ2a, CJ3a : 48.25"
'49-65 Jeep Utility Wagon: 57"
'49 Willys Jeepster 2WD 57"
'52 up CJ3b: 48.Dana 44"
'52 M-38A 49.19" (Military width)
'54-71 CJ-5 48.Dana 44" (so called early narrow axle)
'55-75 CJ-6 48.Dana 44" (so called early narrow axle)
'47-65 Pickup (the classic) frnt-56" rr-63.5"
'63-69 J-200, J-2000 65.5"
'63-69 J-Dana 300, J-3800 65.75"
'70- 72, Gladiator J-2000 frnt-63.5" rr-63.81"
'70- 72, Gladiator J-4000 frnt-63.8" rr-64.38"
'73 J-2500 frnt-63.5" rr-63.8"
'73 all other J trucks frnt-63.9" rr-64.4"
'74-75 J-10 frnt-62.9" rr-63.8"
'76-87 J-10 frnt-63.3" rr-63.8"
'74-75 J-Dana 20 frnt-62.9" rr-64.4" with disc brakes: frnt-63.0" rr-64.4"
'76-84 J-Dana 20 frnt-64.9" rr-65.9"
'63-72 Wagoneer 57"
'73 Wagoneer frnt-57.3" rr-57.5"
'74-75 Wagoneer frnt-59" rr-57.5"
'74-75 Cherokee (full size) frnt-58.8' rr-57.5"
'76-91 Wagoneer, '80+ Cher frnt-59.4" rr-57.8"
'76-79 Cherokee (full size) frnt-59.2" rr-57.8"
'76-78 Cherokee S frnt-59.5" rr-58.5"
'76-80 Cherokee Chief 2 dr. frnt-65.4" rr-62.3"
'81-83 Cherokee Chief 2 dr. frnt-65.3" rr-62.3"
'67-71 Jeepster C-101 50"
'72-73 Commando C-104 frnt-51.5" rr-50"
'72-83 CJ-5, frnt-51.5" rr-50" (so called-
'76-81 CJ-7, CJ-8 ('81 only) frnt-51.5" rr-50" narrow axle)
'82-86 CJ-7 frnt-55.8" rr-55" (so called- wide axle)
'82-85 Scrambler, CJ-8 frnt-55.8" rr-55" wide axle )
'84-87, 93 up Cherokee XJ 58"
'88 up Cherokee XJ 57"
'86-92 Comanche, 57"
'87 up Wrangler, YJ/TJ 58"
'93 up Grand Cherokee, ZJ/WJ 58"

http://jeepTech.com

Forwarded from @Greenwithenvy

RR

 

[RangerRick]

Note this section:

'72-83 CJ-5, frnt-51.5" rr-50" (so called-
'76-81 CJ-7, CJ-8 ('81 only) frnt-51.5" rr-50" narrow axle)
'82-86 CJ-7 frnt-55.8" rr-55" (so called- wide axle)
'82-85 Scrambler, CJ-8 frnt-55.8" rr-55" wide axle )

Here it talks about the widths of the CJ5, 7 & 8 and their various years. I have seen some 82 and 83 CJ5's with WT axles under them that appeared to be original over the years even though it claims that 5's never came with WT axles under them. Maybe they were swapped in or something custom, Not sure but I had a friend with an 83 CJ5 that had WT from the factory. He got in a wreck and swapped one of them into an 86 CJ7 he bought to replace the wrecked 5. The 7 came with no engine or transmission, he simply dropped his 360 V8 that was in his 5 and his built axle that wasn't damaged over to the 7.

RR

 

[j6824]

What Rick said

Scout inners can be cut and turned with a grinder:

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That and outboarding the front...several nice kits available if you didn't want to fab your own. Dave's is one that doesn't involve a shackle reversal:

https://davescustomsunlimited.com/jeep-cj-full-width-axle-kit-without-bumper/

 

[Belizean]

Any idea what the width of the Scout 44 is offhand? Rear

 

[RangerRick]

Hi guys,

it looks like I have an 800B rear axle, I measure 56-1/2" wms to wms.
I also have a Scout II rear that I measure at 58-1/2" wms to wms.

I also found this info on another web-site;
800's were 2 peice axles
Dana 44 tapered wheel mount surface (wms) to wms = 54.75"
Dana 44 flanged wheel mount surface (wms) to wms = 56.75"

thanks,
loosenut


The above courtesy of ihpartsamerica.com post from member @loosenut posted June 15, 2009.
I always credit my sources when looking for information that I don't personally vouch for knowing accuracy of. In this case, the member claims that he has two rear axles from two generations of IH Scouts and they differ by roughly 2" in width.

I hope this is helpful to @Belizean for the data you are looking for.

RR

 

[RangerRick]

BTW, the reason I refer to the AMC corporate 20 axle as the AMC-Dana 20 is that according to sources I've found on line, Dana designed the AMC corporate-20 and sold the design to AMC. This is the reason I refer to it as AMC/Dana 20 axle. To be clear I guess I should refer to it only as the AMC20 Corporate since the above may confuse people on if speaking about the Dana model 20 transfer case or of the AMC20 axle.

Just wanted to clarify this little bit.

RR

 

[Patrick]

Never knew that Dana Spicer had anything to do with the AMC twenty. Thanks for sharing info.

 

[CJ]

WOW, my head is now blown even more...

I'll add the word "corporate" to our data base.

Fun fact, the 20 is one of the strongest axles once you get rid of the splined hubs... You don't have to weld the tubes either...

 

[Patrick]

The AMC twenty is a hubless design. The flanges can be removed from the axle shafts, hence the two piece axle shafts.

 

[CJ]

The AMC twenty is a hubless design. The flanges can be removed from the axle shafts, hence the two piece axle shafts.

Um , yea - what I said, loose the crappy axles.