Trophy trucks and Pre-runners if I'm not mistaken are made with independent suspensions for handling at greater speeds. Not for rock crawling or the type of "wheeling" I do. I have a "built Jeep" and other "factory" Jeeps including their Rubicon model.

I support Jeep in being diverse and needing to compete. I purchase Jeep brand for their stock off-road ability first and accept the on road handling as part of the deal second. This is just my opinion. The new Jeep for the majority of people is excellent for their combined needs. For me if they soften their line they will lose this customer. In fact I have already researched other possibilities if the aforementioned happens.

BTW. This is not a personal argument against you Jason. If enough people don't speak towards the SFA and only praises towards IFS and the "new" Jeep I think we may loose what we have come to embrace.

Couldn't resist the argument, I mean debate. I think the new GC has some real positives and would make a good alternative in the Jeep line up. Seeing how they are all going IFS eventually solidifies my belief Jeep is going soft. If they offered an optional SFA on the new GC I wonder the effect on sales? I hope in some form they keep one SFA Jeep for us who prefer it. I don't like being forced to accept it when I have come to rely and support Jeep for there ability off-road.

Many of the new KJ's front ends are breaking since changing the material in the IFS, and nothing has been done to change if from the exec's at DC (this is on testing Jeep brands, not sure how many real world breaks since even fewer KJ's are wheeled). The engineers want to build the tuff Jeeps but the execs want more emphasis on on-road ability. I suppose I will wait and see if durability and ability truly are compromised when comparative results start to appear. But again I don't like not having the SFA option and I fear my Jeep loyality ends with the current Jeep's I own.

I don't know how many of you have driven on the Rubicon trail but let me tell you, to make that in a vehicle without breaking, even after repeated use is quite an accomplishment. The Jeep Rubicon can and has lived up to that better than any previous or current stock Jeep. Thats what I'm talking about. I wouldn't take my WJ on it in stock form and from the looks of it I sure wouldn't take the WK at all on it. For me it's what would do it (the Rubicon trail) better and more reliable than anything else in my choice in a 4x4.

I will say this.. I have driven the new grand with the hemi and the 4.7l. and 3.7l...
The interior has greatly been improved over the the older one. My only gripe is that they went to electronic four wheel drive.. I hate that.. I would rather have a liberty now because of that.. Back when I worked at a ford dealership... the exploders would always come in either stuck in four wheel drive or that they couldn't go into four wheel drive. I would rather pull it into gear myself instead of having a electronic button or lever do it... The only other gripe is the independent suspension... Yeah it rides great. But there have been some liberty's all of a sudden with blown front diffs.. The grand has the same front diff as the liberty now, and the grand has more torque!
All in all the new grand is very nice... just those two gripes, and the fact that at the dealer I work at the customers are not really liking the outside of it.. They say it looks like an explorer in the rear... They say jeep seems to have lost it's uniqueness.... I hope this was just the view of a few and the rest start buying them up... just for the future of jeeps sake.

Fact = this GC is a move away from an off road capable vehicle. It is a move away from the strong off road image currently associated with Jeep. This is the beginning of the end for Jeep's image. Try to imagine how many new GC's will be at Camp Jeep. Not good....certainly no open mind required. They keep steering away from what made Jeep great in the first place.

There is and old saying that it is not that life is so complicated but that simplicity is so rarely understood. It seems that Jeep was able to translate that philosophy into vehicles that effectively met the desired goal of providing basic utility and transportation for those who “lived off the beaten path” with an uncanny ability. Jeep did not shun technology; I recall the Cherokee was one of the first vehicles that actively employed computer-based design. But, the allure of these vehicles was their functional simplicity and utility. Indeed, this concept fostered the iconic Jeep mentality of ruggedness and utilitarian simplicity. It wasn’t advertised. It was inherent to the design of the vehicles. It seems that recent designs have attempted to capitalize upon this icon, but to the exclusion of the fundamental simplicity and ruggedness that fostered this icon. If Jeep wants to establish the GC as an urban crawler then they should at least provide a consistent alternative for the non-urban user who doesn’t need “automatic everything” but requires rugged simplicity. This was my point. Why won’t Jeep produce a basic utility vehicle with a high-fuel-mileage diesel engine, manual transmission, crank windows, etc.? Isn’t this what the iconic Jeep is all about?

Anyone see the new Jeep commercial featuring the new 2005 WK covered in mud? That seems to me like an add trying to preserve the image of off-road capability...

The WK is still an extremely capable offroad vehicle, as capable as any factory Grand Cherokee has ever been. As was pointed out in a reaction in a previous article about the WK was the video that was shown in the engineering tent at Camp Jeep Virginia. The WK was shown navigating rocks and yes, crawling over them. With its variable locking difs and 10% more wheel travel than the stock WJ, it resembled the TJ Rubicon with a wheel in the air and the vehicle still moving forward. I was very impressed.

I think DC was right on target with the advancement of the new Grand Cherokee.

drove the 05 hemi, AWESOME! the interior setup couldn't be better. EVERYTHING is new and IMPROVED! hemi is a amazing, too much for me but a blast to drive. this vehicle is soooo quiet and smooth, it's as much fun to drive as reported on the speed channel...anyone in the market for a GC go get'um they are GREAT! now we need the 7 passenger commander, maybe the rescue and the compass, could jeep be making a comeback? 2 thumbs up!

here is my comment
After reading all the other comments, I can't resist a few of my own. I'm the proud owner of a 2001 GC limited, which I obviously love, it's an amazingly capable, and "comfortable" vehicle. I just had the opportunity to really go over a 2005 limited, and I have to say I'm disappointed. I love the new hood, and grill configurations, but I can't help but notice how the basic reconfiguration of the rest of the vehicle smacks of the chrysler 300-c, including the new interior which in my opinion looks boring, and "really" cheap, especially the the single stiched leather seating. I truly believe jeep will always move towards out performing the rest, as is evident with the addition of the Hemi, detuned or not, but one advantage that jeep has, is that they offer that performance, off and on road with a touch of luxurious comfort, that the others don't, and the newly redesigned limited looks to have suffered. Looks like I'll have to wait to see if jeep/chrysler can get over the designer problems next year, and give us something desiged a bit more visually satisfying, other than a big blank wall of textured vinyl to stare at. Come on jeep/chrysler when we buy a limited or overland
we've paid for it.

"Jeep will always offer vehicles that are very offroad capable just a little more refined...." I certainly hope you are right. Unfortunately, they are 0 for 2 thus far.

I currenty own a 2004 tj with 33's and a lift and take it "offroad" all the time. I have seen the advatages of a solid axle and independent. If you follow pre-runners or trophy trucks from score they all hav a independent in the front, just longer arms with more wheel travel. There are very few hard core jeep owners out there and Jeep is attracting a "New" kind of customer. Jeep will always offer vehicles that are very offroad capable just a little more refined. If you want a trail rig, build one..there are plenty of old jeeps out there.

I completely agree......it's a pain to sound so obsessive over SFA, but if you have been off road; you understand why!

"far more capable", "accept change", hmmmmm, hardly the comment from a true off-road enthusiast. Compromise=weakness!

The new G/C is far more capable than any earlier version of the Grand cherokee. I have seen the testing with the current WK vs. Wj, and kj equiped with arb's in Moab. Most (95%) of G/C owner's never leave the road??? If they do its just a dirt road????

Accept change....

I like the styling of the new GC. I think it is much boxer than the previous which is very Jeep like.
The round headlights have a much tougher look than the Libertys so you can't say the new GC is "cute".
I can't wait until it's time to trade in my 2000 Grand Cherokee. What a great everyday back and forth to work vehicle that you can climb mountains in on the weekends!

Your selling out Jason. Nice Jeep but not a step up or parallel off-road. It's capable off-road, but not better overall. Your right about the percentage of GC owners who take'em off-road, but why do they buy them. Heritage, reputation, upgradability, durability and so on. Keep one Jeep worthy or lose your foundation, forever. If you don't understand the advantage of a SFA off-road you have never really been off-road. (period)

I would also like to see how an optional SFA would do with those who are fighting the IFS. Maybe offer a "Rubicon" type of package for the WK that comes complete with the SFA and other type of equipment? They are soon to have an "SRT" version with the 425hp 6.1L HEMI. The question would be whether or not they have the resources to produce a WK at both ends of the spectrum. Maybe American Expedition Vehicles will come into the picture.

$8,000 for the diesel option on the Liberty!!!!!!!!http://autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=100943

The idea that Jeep is trying to better the on-road capabilities of its vehicles is not a new concept. Was Jeep trying to enforce its off-road image with the Jeepster and Jeepster Commando in the 40's and 60's? The later inception of the Jeep YJ was also advertized as taking on the environment "that Jeep drivers dread most. Civilization.", with the icon of the Jeep brand shown on a crowded highway. The whole idea of moving the leaf springs underneath the axle was to improve on-road handling and performance over the CJ.

The whole point of developing 4-wheel drive systems such as select-trac was to improve on-road performance in hazardous conditions. The very essance of quadradrive is to adapt quickly to changing road conditions. If the on-road capabilities of vehicles like the XJ,ZJ, and WJ werent important to Jeep engineers, why didnt they just throw command-trac in all of them? If off-road capability were not an issue in the new 2005 WK, they couldve just thrown in a torsion-bar IFS just like everyone else, including HUMMER. It wouldve been cheaper to develop and manufacture.

The fact is Jeep has always been improving the on-road performance of their vehicles while enforcing the off-road capabilities as well. Jeep engineers have always been taking the extra steps to maintain off road capability in all of their vehicles. That is what sets them apart from every other manufacturer. The new 2005 GC is the next advancement, and I stand by my previous statement that DC was right on target with the advancement of the new Grand Cherokee.

bumpkin is right with his comment, I agree. Where is the '41 MB's successor today?..surely not a $30K Rubicon...Where's our plain 'ol Wrangler?

Very true, Jeep is still going to try to play this new GC off as a completely off road capable vehicle in order to keep the image (thus the mud commercial). However, the on road advertisement campaign is being given much more attention. How many old GC commercials were dedicated to on road prowess?? Thus my claim of the decrease in off road image importance.

And to say that this GC is "as capable as any stock GC has ever been," is just plain wrong. The thought that a decrease in ground clearance and the addition of Independent front suspension will increase your off road capability can only be rivaled by the claim that Kerry has had a consistent stance on Iraq. (cheap shot...but bear with me). Please understand that the 10% wheel travel increase statistic is measured against an old GC with it's front axle sway bar STILL CONNECTED. That's right......disconnect that sway bar and those numbers change right on over.

Speed Channel's Test Drive reviewed the new Grand Cherokee. Their very favorable review took the new WK from the upscale streets of La Jolla, CA to the rugged off-road racing of Ensenda, Mexico.

The following is a list of upcoming show times:

Friday, October 15, 2004 12:30AM ET
Saturday, October 30, 2004 4:30PM ET
Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:30PM ET
Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:30AM ET


For more information: http://www.speedtv.com/features/579

i don't get it, jeep adds a hemi for those who want it and everyone complains, it's an option not standard. finally the cg has been redisigned and the complaints are already coming in. this is an OUTSTANDING vehicle, test drive it with an open mind and you will see. i agree jeep needs more vehicles, but our ONLY choice is to be patient. gas over $2 a gallon, don't get the hemi. unless you drive an economy vehicle the cg, liberty & wrangler get the same kind of mileage as all of the other vehicles on the road, i.e trucks, suv's and mid priced cars. dc isn't EVER going to make everyone happy, but come on give this new vehicle the chance it deserves.

DC, do try to remember us rural folks; we espoused the utilitarian virtues of the Cherokee and made it the SUV icon. And, unlike Ford who has truly listened to its constituents and capitalized on its iconic ponycar heritage, you managed to destroy it. We do not need pimped-out hemis, particularly with gas prices over two dollars per gallon. How about doing something truly novel, and bring back the basic light-weight SUV with an economical four cylinder turbo diesel, manual transmission, and perhaps even vinyl flooring. Do try to remember us … you know … the ones who actually live on dirt roads.

so much for Jeep being a unique SUV manufacturer. I say again.....2 solid axle vehicles down......1 more to go.....yeah for German leadership.....

so much for Jeep being a unique SUV manufacturer. I say again.....2 solid axle vehicles down......1 more to go.....yeah for German leadership.....

Is the "other new product" the Compass???

I guess I'll have to look at the new GC. My lease on an '02 GC is up in April. It's been very good, but it's already wide enough that brush scratches are a regular problem. A bigger GC is not what we wanted. With no kids at home, at least on a regular basis, we may downsize to a Liberty. Couldn't do it before with that small trunk area. The old XJs were just about right, but tight in the rear seat. Better looking, too. The newer models are more comfortable, both on and off road, and better quality.

accept change???...even if that change is disastrously bad??? You should think of yourself as quite fortunate that you do not live in a country with a newly formed Communist government.

accepting change is fine....it just means the old Jeep customers will have to be replaced with new ones.....and perhaps not as many new ones.....

And I stand with the fella who actually works at a Jeep dealership and has witnessed average customers equating the new GC to an Explorer and others. The uniqueness (and, thus image) of Jeep is spiraling down the ol' German toilets. Electronic 4wd shifting, IFS, and lower ground clearance are not my idea of keeping off road capability in the forefront.