A Liberty diesel makes a lot of sense to me. My Cherokee is great except the mileage is poor. 18mph overall. I'm not heavy on the gas pedal, either.

I read a review of a European Liberty Diesel on the web. Mileage was about 27 mpg vs 17 for the gas version (in the same test).

Makes sense to me to buy a diesel. Not only better mileage, but should be more reliable, as diesels tend to be. (Not that I've had any drive train problems with my Cherokee).

BTW, I'm not planning to order a "Sienna Gray" model and cruising down Rodeo drive to buy some Pradas.

here is my comment: After all is said and done the big problem that I see with the Liberty is that it looks too much like a rounded "sissy vehicle", like about all other SUVs. It should look more like a Mercedes G Class, older Mitsubishi Pajero, Hummer, or older Land Rover to get my interest. Besides you can only get it with an automatic. I think I will spend more, go and buy a Dodge Heavy Duty, short wheel base 4X4 Cummins Diesel powered pickup with a six speed manual tranny. You can order this great vehicle with far more options to suite you. Past experience shows that this vehicle also can easily exceed twenty miles to the gallon on the road. This vehicle (with 4 doors) does not have a space problem!

Has anyone herd about the new scrabler or the compass being built and when or if they would start. I saw some spy phots of a 4 door wrangler is will be built next here but Haven't her about it being produced

here is my comment

They souldn't sell vehicles called Jeeps that can't make it through the Rubicon trail. DC needs to explain to people with some informative marketing so that more people will understand what makes a Jeep.

Build the following Jeeps:
Wrangler
Scrambler
Dakar
Cherokee

Sell the Jeeps along with a line of vehices built for on-road comfort and soccer moms. Call them Eagles:

Liberty???
Grand Cherokee (future IFS GC)

Conclusion Jeep retains a solid rep.

Jeep/Eagle makes a lot of $$$

Everyone is happy.

here is my comment

If the Liberty does get longer maybe it will look better. Who knows?

I have no complaint with the Cherokee being "dated". Maybe that's just my taste but I think that it adds to the XJ's character. Look at how "dated" the CJ and Wrangler are. Porches are also dated in many respects but that is a good thing when retaining good qualities.

One thing that I like about the XJ is that it has regular old fashoined head lights; not head lamp units that everyone seems to be going to. When the head lights go out, I just spend a few bucks and buy a new one. Head lamps seem to cost a couple hundred bucks. When they start getting warn and scratched they look nasty.

My XJ is more dated that the Ford Exploder that I used to own but I don't mind because it has a better tranny, more powerful (more reliable) engine, a more classic look, a 4WD gear shift rather than the crappy push button 4x4 thing that craps out...I could go on and on.

When word first got out that Jeep was going to replace the XJ Cherokee with a new model I was really excited and planned to buy one. I was very disappointed. Wyatt's reasons are the same as mine, plus the fact that the cargo area behind the rear seat is so tiny (If I stack it to the ceiling stuff will fall on the passengers on a Jeep trail). Now that they are bringing out a Diesel it hurts because I want the diesel, but I just can't bring myself to buy the Liberty. As far as I'm concerened, the recent sales figures, which show a 22% drop in sales for Liberty for the most recent month, are indicitive of a problem. Meanwhile the TJ is on the increase. Hmmm. And how can something be red (Sienna) and white (Pearl) at the same time without having stripes?

It's good to see that DC is putting the diesel into the Liberty instead of wasting it on the Wrangler which, as Consumer Reports found in a recent poll, is the 4th most popular car amongst gay men. Since the Wrangler is apparently driven mainly by gay men who live in the flamboyant sections of the inner cities the diesel would be inappropiate due to the extra tailpipe emissions.

here is my comment

Its high time that Jeeps become available in North America with diesel engines. The rest of the world has them already. Why are we so slow to learn? Diesels are torquey, economical on fuel, at least relatively, require less maintenance apart from more frequent oil changes (My choice not manufacturer)Too bad they do not offer it in the TJ. I'd get in line to buy one.
The noise? Music to my ears.

Consumer Reports lauding a Jeep product? The Apocalypse is nigh... ;)

here is my comment

Hopefully the TJ's replacement will look more like a CJ. I had a TJ (I liked it) but the interior looks like a 1985 Dodge Aries. A retro CJ (interior/exterior and off-roading ability) would be ideal. Then Jeep could base their vehicles off of a retro CJ e.g, Scrambler, 4-door Jeep.

Good points..I've always thought the retro CJ
thing would be great too..it's still the best
looking design..although points to the later
models for suspension, and rollover fixes...
Looks like Toyota had the same idea with the
new FJ look alike

Who cares anymore, I have come to realize there are many awesome 4x4 vehicles now, both from Jeep and other brands. I had a 99 Cherokee, I loved it and never thought I'd find anything to match it. Then I eventually turned to Nissan after deciding that the Liberty wasn't anything I'd want. Well I have a SC Frontier Crew Cab and you know what...when I'm not bsing about Jeep superiority, the truth is the Frontier is just as capable and in many ways surpasses my old Cherokee both on and offroad. I also own a CJ 7 so I am still a Jeep owner, and it kicks @$$ too. Oh and you know what, my parents were looking for a car and I recommended they take a look at the Liberty, they did, loved it, bought it, and quite frankly it's an awesome vehicle to. I still like the Cherokee more, but I am sure there are just as many people who don't. The Liberty is tough, fun to drive, and plows through snow in the winter.

As for future vehicles, I have a great idea for the new wrangler.... build a "retro" brand new CJ 7, sort of like Ford is doing with the Mustand...no not the Mustang concept, but the final product coming in 2005. That thing kicks ass! A modern CJ would too! Oh so many awesome vehicles, I just hope I win the powerball soon! lol

somebody been drinkin?

here is my comment

I just saw the 2003 Toyota FJ Cruiser concept pics today. I don't know if I like it; looks like IFS and solid axle in rear.

I do like the fact that there you can see sheet metal on the dash and in other places in the interior of the vehicle.

If Jeep came out with a CJ similar to this with no IFS and a decent motor, I'd never complain again.

This is just another example of other auto manufacturers building 4x4s for off-road (or at least the preception of off-road prowess) e.g., HUMMER, Nissan, Isuzu, VW, Land Rover.

here is my comment

I'm that optimistic. I hope that when the Wrangler is replaced, DC will build something better but would you say that the YJ and TJ were improvements over the CJ? In realiability - Yes. In capability and style - No

They say that something like the Willys concept will replace the Wrangler. That thing looks like it belongs on the moon. If it has a decent engine than it wouldn't be so bad. Or the Icon? Uuugh!!!

I guess I need to hang on to my "Reagan era" XJ until it dies.

I think everyone should give up the idea that they are going to produce the Dakar. Everyone had 18 years to buy a Cherokee. Jeep made it so long that it become it became a classic sort of like the Grand Wagoneer. If anyone really wants the Jeep nameplate to be around in 10 years it is not going to happen by still producing cars from the Reagan administration. You know, there is going to come a day where the Wrangler is going to get replaced with something newer and better. Just like they have done for the last 60 years.

"If you are a Jeep fan, be a Jeep fan. There are plenty of other SUVs to bash."

Bullshit to this. Why be a "fan" of a word, even if it is devoid of all the attributes that attracted me to the brand to begin with? Some of you need to listen to yourselves... "better ride," "quieter on the highway," "more comfortable." IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A JEEP. Shouldn't that be "better articulation," "excellent power lower on the band," "utility over fashion."

Since when did expressing one's opinion and backing it up (in a polite manner) become secondary to some misbegotten allegiance to a name?

I'd be happy to enumerate the many reasons why I don't think the Liberty lives up to it's Jeep badge (*TECHNICAL* reasons -I don't particularly care what it looks like). If you're happy with your Liberties... more power to you. But don't begin to tell me that I shouldn't express my opinion just because it has a Jeep badge on it.

Check out this video: http://7slotgrille.com/multimedia/hummervsxj.html
If you are a Jeep fan, be a Jeep fan. There are plenty of other SUVs to bash.

here is my comment

With today's diesel technology, Jeep could probably make a pretty cool FSJ. There is still a demand for restored FSJs out there. The only problem is all of the darn gov't regulations for MPG.

I looked at that website with rumors about the future Grand Cherokee. That site was more depressing than inspiring.

Hopefully the Wrangler Rubicon and the Scrambler sell well so Jeep will continue building solid axle Jeeps. The Jeep Rubicon is still a good "chunk of change" though.

There are people who buy Land Rovers who want an off-road capable of hauling more than 5 passengers. Hopefully Jeep doesn't go too soft and can take away that market from LR.

As far as IFS versus solid axle. I like the solid axle ride on road - with my XJ and TJ - it's more bouncy (side to side) but not choppy. With IFS, it's not as bouncy but when you hit a pot hole, there is more of a jolt. Could just be what I prefer though.

There you go guys. Better attitude!!

here is my commentDI owned a 99 Cherokee and a 01 Cherokee, but I finally bought a 03 Liberty Limited and as far as I'm concerned it is the best vehicle I have ever owned. It rides much better than either Cherokee along with being much less noisy. I still hear wind noise, but very little engine and tire noise. The engineering is vastly superior. No rattles and shakes. The body integrity is almost flawless. It took me a couple years to get used to the look, but now I love it. It has great visibilty and the seats are very comfortable. I think it is a little short of luggage space but the dimensions are only a little smaller than the Cherokee. I was considering the Grand Cherokee the last time , but for the price, the Liberty seemed better. The seats are more comfortable, it has better visibility and handling, and the ride isn't much worse. As for the diesel, what I've read about it I think the Liberty is the perfect vehicle to try it in. Next time around I will look at it closely.

JASON:

The secret truth is that Jeep is coming out with two (2) Grand Cherokees. Actually, a Grand Cherokee and the return of the Grand Wagoneer (name not set).

The Grand Cherokee will be a little larger and the Grand Wagoneer will be between a Tahoe and Suburban in size and passenger room.

I own a Liberty Limited. Road ride is much, much better than my 94 Cherokee. Handling is more sure than the Cherokee as well.

Of course, my wife's Grand Cherokee blows both away.

Alright, I'll admit I once saw a Liberty on a trail, and they had to go through a tough section to get there. It is disheartening to hear that the pavement ride of a Liberty is worse than an XJ. I drove my friend's GC recently and it drives really nice.

here is my comment:

My apologies if anyone took my earlier comments about the Wrangler seriously and were offended. They were made in jest. Since the Wrangler is the number 4 most popular car amongst car theives it could just as easily joked that only the criminally inclined drive them.

As for the Liberty, I like mine and find it's a lot more capable off road then what the owner's of the real Jeeps would think. I've been able to get it past spots on the rocky Connecticut hillsides that my Kubota tractor can't handle. But I do think Diamler-Chrysler screwed up by going with IFS on the Liberty. Ultimately the on-pavement ride with the Liberty's IFS is very harsh and jittery. Worse than the Cherokee's ride. So the supposed benefit of going with IFS on the Liberty just isn't there, and it goes without saying that with IFS it gives up a lot of the Cherokee's potential off-road capability, which is the real point of getting a Jeep.

It's a shame the Dakar wasn't built. That would have been a better replacement for the Cherokee than the Liberty. I'll say that even though the Libety is a fine small SUV, the best available in my opinion.

Here's some info on the potential "longer-wheelbase" GC with 3rd-row seating from the lost Car-Truck.com website (Google cached):

http://tinyurl.com/n8ni

Has anyone heard anymore on the future GC ?
MalcomXJ mentioned a longer wheelbase & 3rd row seats which would be great! Ive read on a couple sites about a redesign for release in July with 3rd row seats that would be a 2005 model. But then they say for 2006 it will have a longer wheelbase with 3rd row seat? This would not make sense to spend all the money it takes to redesign a vehicle and then a year later totally redesign it again. There are 3 possibilities that I can think of #1 DC has money to burn, and theyll do just that. #2 DC just leaked some bad info intentionally which could be very possible. OR #3 After redesigning the GC they will leave it in the stable and add an additional stable mate,a 2006 Grand Wagoneer which would be a great way to broaden the line. These are the only things I can think of but if anyone has any more information or thoughts to share please do so.Out of all the manufactures, Jeep keeps the most secrets about new product. Its hard to find any info. Maybe DC should start sharing a little info by the looks of the Grands sales for the year. Its time for some changes. Ive read some of your comments about needing a full size heavy duty truck and I agree 150% !! My J20 is great but I wouldnt mind adding a new truck to what my wife calls my Jeep fleet.81-J10 , 87-J20, 98 GC & 00-Wrangler.I cant help it, its a sickness !I do wish that more FSJ people would join this site,its a great site and some of you guys have some good insight.I started with my 1st jeep about 10 years ago, a 79 CJ-7 & have been hooked ever since.If any of you guys ever get a chance to pick up a full size Jeep do it ! It really opens your eyes to how many diferent capable vehicles Jeep made.My trucks are truly tanks. I just hope DC expands the line once again .Its been over 10 years since Jeep offered the Comanche and over 15 years since they offered the J-series trucks . I was glad to hear the possibility of the Scramblers return . That could be a step in the right direction for a trucks return.

"XJGary - You are right about the cargo room in the Liberty. It is small, even when compared to the Cherokee it replaced. Jeep is addressing that with a stretched version in 2005."

This is the first I'm hearing of a "stretched" Liberty, where'd you find that? I've heard of the coming longer-wheelbase GC with third-row seating.

XJGary - You are right about the cargo room in the Liberty. It is small, even when compared to the Cherokee it replaced. Jeep is addressing that with a stretched version in 2005.

Wyatt - You heard wrong. The seats fold flat in the Liberty to make a larger cargo area. With the split rear seat, it is easy to load quite a bit and still have one rear passenger.

What the heck are all you guys driving? You bash the Wrangler, Liberty etc....
Get over it. I had a 2001 Cherokee Limited and loved it......until we traded for a Grand Cherokee and now realize how dated that Cherokee was. What other car company kept a SUV for 18 years without a major redesign? They couldn't keep making it forever. I saw Liberty's handle the same trails as Wrangler's at Camp Jeep this year and they did great! They are a little small for me and that's why we bought a Grand Cherokee.
I can only imagine what was said about the XJ in 1984 when it came out. My ony complaint from DC in the past few years is to have more vehicles in their lineup. It sounds like they may be adding 3 new ones in the next couple of years. I will always buy Jeep!

here is my comment

In addition, I heard that you can't fold the rear seat down all the way in the Liberty. If that's true, that's really poor design. No wonder why it's smaller than the XJ on the inside yet larger on the outside.

I am glad that Liberty is making money for the Jeep. I would like to see a total redesign of it though.

The sad thing is that Jeep used to be the forerunner (not 4-Runner) of off-road vehicles only to be copied by other companys. Now, DC seems to be hoping that the Jeep's reputation is enough to keep it going while DC copies other company's SUVs, puts round lights and a seven slot grill on them and calls them Jeeps.

No wonder DC was so irked by HUMMER's use of the round lights and seven slot grill. It is one of the few things that Jeep has left; albeit only symbolic.

Can't you just feel the love around here?

Wranglers are for gay men?

Liberty's get stuck in tall grass?

We're all Jeep owners and if we don't stick together there will be no Jeep and we're all S.O.L.

The Liberty is a decent vehicle and quite capable. If you haven't seen it in action, then don't comment.

The Wrangler is driven by many, many women these days. Young college women. Nothing wrong with that.

I'd rather see people buy a Jeep than a Toyota or Honda or anything else.

here is my comment

Kia and Suzuki sell quite a bit of 4x4s as well. But it doesn't mean they sell great off-road vehicles.

To Liberty Owner's defense, I beleive that the Liberty is a decent vehicle and a pretty darn good one compared to the other
Vs, RAV4s, Escapes and so on.

I like the fact that the Liberty has great visibility and the driver sits up high.

I just don't like IFS, the rounded, feminine look, or the interior. We'll see how they hold up after 300,000 miles.

I beleive that the Dakar would have sold just as many, if not more, units as the Liberty. I hate to keep harping on DC's decision not to make the Dakar. I think that the Dakar would have brought in a lot of people who pay for the over priced and unreliable Land Rover Discovery.

We'll see how the Liberty sells when the HUMMER H4 comes out.

I believe that people buy Libertys just to be part of the 4x4 fad. It's enough of a "cute-ute" to attract the soccer moms and the people who would have bought the VW New Beetle.

Long live the XJ!

XJGary

Seinna pearl refers to the color "seinna red" It is the name of the factory color choice. Oh and by the way last time I checked the "ugly Liberty" that "no one want's" was still the best selling vehicle in it's class. If you check the total sales you can see that they have sold over 216,000 of them in the last two years, that sure is a lot of nobodies.

Maybe LO is right. I was looking at the used Jeep ads on this site and a guy is selling a Rubicon TJ that is "Sienna Pearl" in color. No straight guy would know what that means (I sure don't). Whatever happened to colors like green, blue, red, white, grey,etc? Is this why Jeep builds purple Jeeps? LibertyOwner, if that Wrangler that pulls you out of the tall grass or gravel parking lot is purple or Sienna Pearl, it might really be your lucky day! And the dude might really appreciate the artistic glow of your frog-eye headlights, the manly tough plastic bumpers or the sensitive feel of the ever-clean white leather Liberty seats.

here is my comment

Libertyowner:

Don't be a Wrangler hater now. If it wasn't for real Jeeps, you wouldn't have your Liberty. Besides, you may get stuck in some tall grass some day and need to be pulled out by a Wrangler. You may be in luck. If your source is correct, then there may be a gay man inside that very Wrangler.

I agree with the other posts in that I wish the Diesel were offered in the TJ and TJL as opposed to being wasted on the ugly Liberty that no one wants as expressed by the 22% decrease in sales. It is probably more trouble than I'd want to go through to replace my 4.0 gas engine with one in my XJ, but I can dream. Now that Toyota came out with the Scion there is actually a vehicle being sold in the US that is uglier than a Liberty!

here is my comment

I wonder how much more expensive the diesel engine option will be.

Too bad it won't be offered in the Wrangler or Scrambler - at least not yet.

The Diesel Liberty is still not worth trading in my XJ.