Just a quick note to all of you know-it-all, have done-it-all jeep experts. My first vehicle was a 1962 IH Scout with a 4 banger. Since then I have owned and maintained just about every make, model and year 4x4 you can imagine. Jeeps in any configuration are certainly not the most bullet proof off-roaders out of the box. But aftermarket parts are plentifull and relativly inexpensive. Even teenagers that are older than their IQ's can modify a jeep to be capable without breaking (too much). Just try restoring a FJ40 Landcruiser $$$$$$!!!. And you will be glad that you chose a CJ5 for your project instead. Now that I am tired of having greasy fingernails, fenders, transfer cases and 33" tires cluttering up my garage. I decided that it was time for leather seats, heated mirrors, and every other option I could get on my new Jeep Liberty. And boy is it comfortable. Maybe someday I will feel the need to return to that expensive Craftsman tool chest in the back garage, and if so I think I chose an excellent platform to start with. But for now I like it just the way it is.

Check out car and truck news buzz watch. That is an old rumor that is NOT true.

See, that is just what I am talking about. X-terra, you say "the X-terra is just as good as the Liberty", so why would you defect to another company? If you REALLY look at the suspension on the Liberty versus the X-terra, you will see that the Liberty has more flex, and stronger, more damage resistant IFS components. So what is the problem? I will agree that the x-terra has more cargo space. But why can't we stick to FACTS about the Liberty when we discuss it? All I here is "It looks like a wuss-mobile!" If you see one in person, I think it looks pretty cool. Pictures don't quite do it justice. Or people say "I would trash the thing in a week!" Well, the suspension is cast iron in front, the same as the GC in the rear, and the transfer case is the same as other Jeeps. Also, I believe the axles are the same used on the XJ. So why do you think it will fall apart? And if everybody hates the Liberty because of the IFS, why do you say you will buy an X-terra instead, or an H-2, or a Chevy Trailblazer? These are all IFS rigs! That's like saying "I won't buy a Grand Cherokee because they only come with auto trannies, and then buying another companies truck that only comes with an auto. It puts a big hole in your argument. I wish they kept the XJ, too. I even designed it's replacement for them at Camp Jeep '99. Take the XJ, add the quadra-coil suspension, a split folding rear seat, and an outside spare tire carrier, and you are done. Really the only thing different from that about the KJ is the IFS. And by the way, I saw a lift kit for the KJ in 4 Wheel and Sport Utility Magazine. It only uses 4 coil spring spacers to achieve a 2&1/2-3" lift using the stock suspension. It looked like they were able to fit 31's on. I guess the point I was trying to make in my last post was that Jeep made some design and marketing decisions when they introduced the XJ in 1983 that probably upset a lot of people. Now the XJ is a classic. Why don't we cut Jeep some slack, and see what time does with the KJ?

Listen pal, I've been in my Aunt's 98 lexus, and
in my own '99 Cherokee.... and my Cherokee
gives a smoother "on road" ride then her
Lexus. I wasn't comparing it to a Lexus, and I
was ONLY referring to Cherokee's supposedly
poor "on road" performance..... & I know a hell
of a lot about four wheeling .. plus driving in
Blizzards, doing frame up restorations on
CJ's.... ect..... actually... my 1980 CJ7 rides
pretty good "on road" as well.... Maybe 1980's
era Jeeps aren't that bad after all!

P.S. Actually I know someone with a 4" lifted
Xterra who wants to try the Rubicon... & in my
neighboring state of Mass ...Xterra owners are
starting there own four wheeling groups just
like the Jeepers and snobby Land Rover
owners. From what I have seen the Xterra is
just as good as the Liberty.....and since I can't
get a new Cherokee.... I'll go with a SC Xterra
next time.

Some of you guys really need a lesson in Jeep history. The only Jeep that was a "rip out the carpet" mentality was the CJ/YJ/TJ. From the beginning Jeep has marketed to families (the Willy's Wagon), the fashion conscious (the Jeepster) and the country club set (the full size wagoneer). Jeep is not just about rock crawling. I am on my third Jeep-1991 Wrangler, 1995 Cherokee, 2001 Grand Cherokee--all stock, 2001 GC w/Up-country. I use mine for hunting and fishing with a lot of snow and beach driving. All my Jeeps saw a lot of miles, and a lot of off-road miles. Let's all be honest about the new Liberty. First of all, the four-wheeling press has high praise for it. The latest issue of four wheeler says it is just as good as the XJ off-road, but better on pavement. All you guys who hate it haven't driven it and given it a chance, like the press has. If this was 1984, when the XJ came out, what would you guys be saying? It's too small, Jeep ruined it by using coil springs-real off-road machines have leaf springs! It's not a real Jeep-rich people with BMW's are buying them! A uniframe?!?!? It's not a Jeep, it's a car! Jeep did a great job with the XJ, but it's time has passed, let's get over it! We can't survive on our own. If we want trails to stay open, more people have to be interested in off-roading. So what is wrong with a NEW Jeep that doesn't ride like a 1984 Jeep? You guys don't like the looks (a matter of taste), you don't like the IFS (the magazines say it's the best IFS out there). That's fine. But please keep to reality. I drove an XJ for almost 7 years, and 207,000 miles. The are ROUGH RIDING! To say an XJ rides better than a Lexus just means you have no clue what you are talking about. Jeep is about FOUR WHEEL DRIVE, and doing it better than other manufacturers. So they stacked rocks on the Rubicon-you would have to do that with any stock Jeep. Would you even try the Rubicon with a
V, Kia, Tracker, Explorer, Escape, RAV-4, Trailblazer, X-terra, or Freelander? I doubt it.

What are all these comments concerning the Liberty's ability to complete the Rubicon Trail(let alone the fact that the course was stacked to aid it). Doesn't this vehicle wear the "Jeep" nameplate. A name that causes one to remember WWII and Korea. Why should we have to worry about whether or not the next jeep will make the off-road cut. For God's sake, Jeep vehicles weren't meant to just get by, they were meant to dominate. The XJ was the leader of the pack. Not because it looked better, rode smoother, sold faster, or "fit in" with the other suv's, but because it stuck to what worked in the beginning: the "shift-on-the-fly" 4wd, the solid axle's, and the simple, utilitarian, rip-the-damn-carpet-up-if-you-want-to-it-looks-better-anyway mentality. My suggestion is that DC and Ford swap Land R***r (can't write the word, I'm American) and Jeep. Let the low-down Eurodesigner-fashion-minded-cakeboys ruin their own brand (then we can send the Jeep over yet again to save their sorry selves). And to Renegade: have you tried lifting an IFS (which is what you'd have to due to keep fellow off-roaders from taunting your new KJ on the trails), its a heck of a lot more time consuming and expensive then an XJ- the reason why you hardly ever see new Land Cruisers, X-terras, or Troopers (and a whole lot more) on the rough trails. Long live the Jeep.

I agree, the ride of my 99 Cherokee is even
better then my Aunt's crappy Lexus. I don't
know why they complain about it, Cherokee's
are very smooth on road. Still, once they lease
is up I'm going to drive my completely restored
CJ7 for most of next year, then late in 2002 I'll
store the CJ and move on to a SC Xterra... or
maybe a new Chevy Colorado quad cab....the
recent Isuzu twin that was shown looked pretty
good.... like a Tacoma only without the ugly
front grill. Or... maybe I'll give up my "MUST BE
A MANUAL TRANNY" rule and get a Hummer
H2 .... that looks pretty cool! I wish we could
post pics here... I'd show off my CJ ...it looks
like a 2002 Wrangler only better... because it's
a CJ7!!!

I could care less how the Liberty rides...it's ugly, and I would never own one.

And speaking of ride...everytime I read about the Liberty...the reviews always mention how the ride is soooo much better than an Cherokee. Well, let me say something. I am a sales-rep on the road and I travel anywhere from 40,000 to 50,000 kilometres a year....that's 25 to 35 thousand miles for those in the USA. I love the ride of my Cherokee. It is super smooth on the highway, and I regularly cruise at 80 mph. I find it nimble in the city too. Easy to handle....I love driving it. And in the bush...forget about it...it smokes anything else in it's class.

I swear, these guys reviewing the Cherokee have not driven one in 10 years. It's as though they just take the statement at face value (that Cherokees ride rough) and then repeat it. I've driven in everything from Pathfinders to 4runners to Lincoln Navigators and many many more...and I am always happy to get back behind the wheel of my 2000 sport.

If the Liberty was so fricken great....they should have been able to sell it side by side with the Cherokee. Clearly, that would have been a disaster for the Liberty so D/C obviously pulled the plug on the greatest SUV of all time! Then they geared up the hype big time...but like they say...you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time. XJ owners are not fooled!

Forget about the Liberty competing with other manufactures SUV's....it could not compete with D/C's very own classic. I have yet to see more than a handfull of Libertys on the roads of Ontario Canada. I see way more Libertys unsold on the dealer lots.

Don't believe the sales hype from D/C....this dog ain't selling in Canada. At $36k CND (fully loaded) there is way to much else out there in terms of choice. Vehicles that may not be Jeeps...but they are not butt-ugly either.

The Liberty may be capable...it may be twenty -first century....It may be the future of Jeep....but it ain't ever going to be in my driveway.

here is my comment To Jeff & others, Jeff if you are getting stuck w/oversized tires, then it mite be your offroad driving scills at fault rather then the tires,that is if you even go offroad.You see Jeff where I live in Michigans u.p it snows in feet not in inches.A jeep up here is like a tool We use Are jeeps not just to go to the store but to go deep into the woods to go hunting,fishing & traping ect.I did test drive a Liberty a month ago & if I was a teenage girl & lived in the city it would be great but I am not.this joke of a jeep would not last Me a week.
as for the facts that renegade is asking for?

Fact;My xj has over 200,000 miles on it.

Fact;you can put a 3" lift on it for $305.00 try

doing that w/any other s.u.v

Fact;xj was the very first s.u.v

I am not a fanatic Renegade, I am a realist.The xj works for Me & alot of other people to. just look at some of the consumer web sites & see what others say. D.C is killing the jeep name.

O.K. C.L. instead of coming on to this site and telling everyone that the Liberty
is a crappy little rig that's hardly worth the Jeep name, tell us why. State facts
that can be backed up, not just what you happen to think. Everyone that has good things to say about the Liberty can back up their statements with hard facts like Jeff in one of the previous post or even the magazines that have
put the vehicle through its paces. The only real negative that I have heard on
the Liberty centers around ground clearance and power. For those of you who think the magazines are paid off to print positive reviews need to get a life. The fact is that I own a Cherokee Sport and I like the rest of the XJ fanatics
out there, I love the vehicle. And no I am not selling it to get a Liberty.

What a crappy little rig...hardly worthy of the Jeep name...and certainly exibiting little if ant Jeep heritage! If this wasn't a replacement for the cherokee...it would be laughable!!

here is my comment....Oversized tires never got me anything but stuck!!! To the people bad mouthing the new Liberty,SHUTUP and drive one. We did and then we bought it. Drives nice and wow you don't have to wear a parka to go to the store.
So far as it's ability, we took the Usal Rd. in No. Calif. 27 miles of hell that took over 2 hrs.
Guess what we never put in 4wd. Works for us.

The Liberty is a great vehicle regardless of what most of the people on this site
seem to think. DC is trying to bring the Jeep brand into the 21st century, so as
to appeal to a wider audience. That's a good thing. Just about every expert
that has had an opinion on the Liberty has said it is very capable off-road and in fact a real Jeep.
However, DC made a huge mistake by dropping the XJ from
the Jeep lineup. Their own research has proven that the XJ buyer and the KJ
buyer are two different animals. The Liberty as a stand alone model would have
been better accepted had it not replaced the Cherokee. According to DC they
dropped the XJ because it would have failed to meet the coming safety regs. We have no way of knowing if that fact is true or not, I think it was dropped
because they were afraid it would take sales from the Liberty. As I mentioned
before DC is trying to take the Jeep brand into the 21st century, but I hope they
realize that they can build vehicles that appeal those new buyers and their loyal
buyers from years past. All the signs I have seen recently seem to say they
can't. I hope like hell I'am wrong but it doesn't look good for the old school
jeepers.

I DO have a few more things to add, now that I've read a few more things on this site:

I hope all the XJ builder employees who have been laid off are able to come back and build more XJ's when the Liberty hopefully proves that in order to gain one piece of market share, DC gave up another piece. Many people who bought XJ's and would in the future will not buy the Liberty. The Liberty doesn't replace the reasons to buy an XJ. It abandons them for a different segment of the market. It's really sad and pathetic to see a valuable and coveted product like the XJ be abandoned by the here-today-gone-the-next marketing and shareholder executives and DC and the global monstrousity it has ended up being. I hope that plenty of those get-rich-quick minded people lose their jobs and the XJ is brought back into production before they have a chance to try and cash in on what they are (misguidedly) hoping the Liberty will be for them - a cash cow.

-John

It makes me want to puke. It looks like DC would like us all to buy these things and make low rider custom trucks out of them. Come to think of it, what else could you do with them? The gas mileage is too lousy for commuting. There isn't enough luggage space behind the rear seats to take a family vacation, ski trip or camping trip, and it would be useless on a real 4wd trail. Tall people can't see out the low windows without ducking. So low rider trucks with the blue lights that blind oncoming traffic, frilly nerf bars, chrome wheels, and fake wood trim it is. I still want to puke. What's next, a two wheel drive, lowered Unimog?

I'm no fan of the Liberty's styling. To me these 3 rigs remind me of Poofed up Poodles at a dog show.
That's not to take anything away from the quality of the actual Custom jobs.....which is obviously first class.

And one more thing! It don't matter if you own a CJ, YJ, MJ,or KJ. Most of the commentary I'm reading here tells me that you need to apply some K-Y to your foot before you stick it in your mouth. Because most of you guys know about as much about off road'n as L.L. Cool J.

Accepting the KJ is all fine and dandy... i agree that we need to give it time. The XJ was not accepted when it was introduced, and now it IS loved by many. This still does not mean that i, personally, have to like it.. to each his own.

Another thing to consider is that the KJ probably will not be around as long as the XJ was. With manufacturers re-designing every four years the KJ of 2006 will be different from the KJ of 2002.

If DC did it right they would offer the KJ with IFS in two wheel models and solid axle in 4x4 models... best of both worlds!

On another note... Rumor has it that the next Wrangler will be based on the KJ platform. If this comes to pass then we can really start bitchin!

here is my comment

Utah said it, and it summed up the heart of the matter so perfectly that I am posting it again, below, with total relish:

"If the Liberty was so fricken great....they should have been able to sell it side by side with the Cherokee. Clearly, that would have been a disaster for the Liberty so D/C obviously pulled the plug on the greatest SUV of all time! Then they geared up the hype big time...but like they say...you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time. XJ owners are not fooled! Forget about the Liberty competing with other manufactures SUV's....it could not compete with D/C's very own classic."

The Liberty IS a step forward into the 21St. Century, but so what! Why does everything have to be updated, standardized, and modernized.

Does no one ever just enjoy life for what it is anymore, always too woried about progress and what the jones's have! Personally, i would much rather be going to a Jeep dealer and buying a brand new CJ than a KJ.

I bought my 2000 XJ because it wasn't modern and fancy. I am actually able to load something in the cargo area without worrying about tearing it up. I bought my 2001 TJ because i have always wanted a CJ since i was old enough to see!! I decided to get one before DC decides to turn them all into cars! It's no wonder half the world hates Americans, everyone is just TOO good to not have leather, 6 disk CD changers, automatic climate controlls, and heated mirrors.... and they are just trying to stay alive! GIVE ME A BREAK!!

The Liberty looks like it was designed by one of those newbile, fresh out of school, design students that hasn't ever seen a CJ, much less been alive during the time they were produced. Round headlights and a seven slot grill do not make a Jeep.

And while i'm ranting... why does everyone keep saying that the Liberty rides better with IFS than a solid front axle? Guess that's why i see everyone that drives IFS trucks (including Liberty) swerve around bumps and slow down so much going over RailRoad crossings??

F.U. DC!! S.U.V.'s SUCK!

ive read reviews on the liberty and from what ive read it can turn out to be a good vehicle but in my opinion the daimler/chrystler is taking away from what use to be a jeep. by starting to make the ride more like a cadillac then an suv. dont get me wrong, im all for a smooth ride but if thats what you want then go buy a ford or chevy. jeeps have started out with a rough and rugged ride and they should stay that way. too many people are buying them just for bragging rights and not for the intended use with they were made for. off-road/recreational use. not for goin to the store and back or out for a sunday drive with the wife and kids. and as far as the liberty, the only thing that makes it a jeep is the grill and headlights. nothing else on that vehicle resembles a jeep. and as far as taking away the xj, that could very well end up being a huge mistake. there are thousands of faithful jeep owners, whether its with a jy, tj, xj, or cj. but the point is that you cant teach n old dog new tricks.

Long live the Liberty.

But DC, let *us* decide when we don't want XJ's anymore.

All I would like to say, is what will those namby pamby, chrome and plastic flairs do when the Manzanita, and scrub oak start "pin stripping" the sides? THese poor excuse for 4x4's could not even traverse a fire road with out damage, let alone a REAL off road trip! D.C.! WAKE UP!! The public expects the jeep name to be able to live up to it's go anywhere-do anything heritage! You already have the "Grand", and I have been out on the trails with some, even they can outdo 99% of the suv's out there. You are killing the once proud name JEEP. There used to be only ONE! And it had BALLS!! not bangles and beads with leather recliners! Come on out to the "hammers", and see what you are missing! JUST MY 2"C'S STEVE

here is my comment
How gay, no lifts, no over size tires what's the point? The libertys are no jeeps that's for sure.