If this is the "Future" of Jeep....Cherokee>>Liberty; '93-'04 GC>>>>'05 GC; well I'm just really AFRAID to see what follows the tried n'true Wrangler YJ/TJ>>>>Are these designers on drugs? And I thought the '97 Ford Taurus was UGLY....Now comes these Bug-Eyed Twins....What a sad joke. Where's my Grand Wagoneer, My CJ, My Rescue!....

WEW! That had me worried for a while. It looks like it must be a website error. I thought the book did show QT2 available on F and X packages. But the Jeep website will not allow you to build and price one this way nor does it list QT2 as available on the F and X pkgs on the specs page. I hope it is still available with the V6 as well.

YIKES! The 2005 Grand Cherokee Laredo IS NOT TRAIL RATED!! Just saw this on the Jeep website, if you look at the specs for new WK, the Laredo is ONLY available with Quadra-Trac I 4wd system (which doesn't have a Low Range) and does NOT include a Trail Rated badge. I really hope this is a mistake on the website, if not, this is a bad sign for the future of Jeep.

Motortrend.com has a lot of photos from the 2004 SEMA show.

http://motortrend.com/autoshows/coverage/112_04_sema/

I got a glimpse of what appears to be the 2005 Grand Cherokee Mojavi from American Expedition Vehicles in the background of the "Chrysler 300C Hurst Edition" photo, but could not find a photo featuring the Jeep itself. Ive been dying to see what AEV has done to the WK. Does anyone have a link that has photos of the Mojavi Edition from AEV?

We went and looked at the new GC, and decided it's too big for us, also too Explorer-like. Now that we have no kids at home, we'll downsize to a Liberty, which is 12" narrower across the mirrors. It'll fit in our garage easier, and maybe I'll get fewer brush scratches. I've learned to live with the looks, and look forward to having a smaller, more nimble Jeep. I have to say we were happy with the current GC except for the floaty ride and steering. It has had no problems in 2 1/2 years, gets decent mileage with the old 6, and has done real well in the Oregon Outback, comparable to our old Cherokees but much more comfortable. Tough to beat Cherokees for visibility and maneuverability, though.

it's all true, the gc is outstanding, bravo for the recognition.

Link To Mojave: http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=582602&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

I checked out the new Grands while at the dealer this morning. They are nice inside and out (although the exterior is too common looking) overall i like them, if they still had a solid front axle on the 4x4 models that would be great!

The thing i don't like it that if you want the HEMI you have to move up to the top of the line model which is WAY too much money! 36K for a mid-sized SUV! I don't think so. I can get Dodge 1500 4x4 quad cab w/HEMI, 5 speed automatic, tow package, and all the same off-road options for WAY less money, around $32K. Not saying these vehicles are in the same class but the Dodge is MUCH more truck than the grand for less money, plus you don't have to be stuck with all the ESP and other bells and whistles to get teh muscle! I can't see why they set the pricing so high for the new Grand. I will be keeping my 00 XJ and 01 TJ indefinately... that's what i told the sales guy, then he said he had a meeting to get to. :) Find another sucker buddy!

Nope. Jeeps that are 2wd or do not have low range are NOT trail rated. According to the 2005 Grand brochure, the base Laredo package, E, comes with the 3.7 and Quadra-Trac I, and is thus not trail rated. The F and X packages offer Quadra-Trac II which included a low range and thus trail rated. However, the book and those I have seen at dealerships seem to imply that these packages require an upgrade to the 4.7. Here is an example of a trail rated Laredo: http://www.dullesauto.com/Jeep/251071_1.html

I think that the Grand Cherokee, Liberty, Commander, Scout will all slowly veer away from being "off roaders" and slowly move and compete with all the other competitors as aggressive looking vehicles with softer sprung ( re IFS ) suspensions, more comforatable seating, etc.

I hope that DCX will stay true and keep the Wrangler ( TK ) as a "halo" vehicle that will harken back to the go anywhere do anything image they want to market. As Skrambler Ken has mentioned, DCX needs numbers ( over 100, 000 units yearly ) and will most likely spin this platform off to other brands in their portfolio.

We may also see many versions of the TK as well. It is sounding more likely that there will be extended versions with four doors, a four door SUT version (Scrambler?_, etc.

As far as suspensions, I do know that the Wranglers with quadra coil suspensions are much better ( more capable off road AND more comforatable on road )than the pre '97 leaf springs. I am hoping that they can somehow raise the bar with IFS as well. Time will tell.

The only reason the 4x4 laredo is not trail rated is because of the single speed transfercase, it failed in the area of traction. There will not be a v6 that is trailrated.

I'll agree with ScramblerKen, It wouldn't matter to me either if the TK had IFS, or even IFS and IRS, the fact is that if it comes from JEEP it will probably be the BEST IFS and IRS on the market.

Remember, JEEP was the impetus for the HUMVEE suspension design, so if JEEP slapped a 4W I.S. under the TK, I suppose then it wouldnt matter, as long as it performed well, a 4W I.S. might be the best thing for the next generation.

Again, I will say that if DCX throws us a piece of crap with a Wrangler sticker on it, the core customer base is gonna throw it right back in their feces, oops, I mean faces!

sorry bout the double post, my computer screwed up on me

I think that jeep came up with the whole "trail rated" thing so they didnt have to build trail rated vehicles. I think that jeep should take a page out of Porsche's book and stick with what made them what they are. Granted, the porsche SUV pissed off the purists like how IFS pisses us off, but the 911 is their bread and butter, and they make it right. Jeep should do the same with the wrangler. If the TJ can get people to buy it "cuz it looks cool top down" then stick with it, but leave it capable enough for us offroad guys. Porsche gets enough Yuppie buyers of the 911s, but still builds the car for the purists. The Wrangler should be the same way, Solid axle, built to offroad, not just to sell. People will still buy it! they already do

I think that jeep came up with the whole "trail rated" thing so they didnt have to build trail rated vehicles. I think that jeep should take a page out of Porsche's book and stick with what made them what they are. Granted, the porsche SUV pissed off the purists like how IFS pisses us off, but the 911 is their bread and butter, and they make it right. Jeep should do the same with the wrangler. If the TJ can get people to buy it "cuz it looks cool top down" then stick with it, but leave it capable enough for us offroad guys. Porsche gets enough Yuppie buyers of the 911s, but still builds the car for the purists. The Wrangler should be the same way, Solid axle, built to offroad, not just to sell. People will still buy it! they already do

4) 10 years ago, all Jeeps had to meet the Rubicon challenge. That is no longer required, so Jeeps can be IFS, 2WD or whatever they want them to be. It seems to DCX, as long as it has a 7 slot grill, it’s a Jeep.

The whole Rubicon challenge thing is irrelevant. This was simply a statment by an ex-Chrysler exec (Bob Lutz) that he beleived all Jeeps should be able to navigate the Rubicon. Jeep has always built 2WD versions of the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee that couldn't navigate the Rubicon. Also, the 4wd Cherokee Limiteds of the 80's and 90's that came with Eagle GT performace tires wouldn't fair to well on the Rubicon. According to Jeep, the Trail Rated system was to quantify what Rubicon capable was all about. Also, if DCX thinks people don't care about whats underneath, why did they build the Rubicon Wrangler?

Currently, the next Generation Wrangler will include the following 3 suppliers:

Snip…..

South Korea's Hyundai Mobis, Germany's Kuka Group, and Haden International Group Inc. of Auburn Hills, Mich. - will supply chassis and painted bodies for the upcoming redesigned Jeep Wrangler and another vehicle off its platform, replacing some jobs at Toledo Jeep.

END SNIP…

(SEE: http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041102/BUSINESS02/41102001&SearchID=73188946309456)

This is from an article published November 2, 2004, so these are the current ‘partners’ in the project.

It is likely that additional vehicles maybe built off the new TK platform, but…

1) Decisions to build additional vehicles are more than just having a common platform. The pickup variant of the Unlimited uses the exact same platform as the Unlimited, but the vehicle will never see the light of day.

2) The rumor currently is a 4-door Wrangler (similar to the Dakar) is the likely candidate as the other vehicle based on the new TK platform, but there is also the possibility Hyundai or some one else will use the platform instead. This maybe why Hyundai is one of the partners on this project.

3) The TK might be IFS. Until we see the actual vehicle, we will not know if it will be IFS or SFA. Since most Wrangler owners don’t even know the difference, DCX could probably get away with it.

4) 10 years ago, all Jeeps had to meet the Rubicon challenge. That is no longer required, so Jeeps can be IFS, 2WD or whatever they want them to be. It seems to DCX, as long as it has a 7 slot grill, it’s a Jeep.

5) The past 2 new vehicles from Jeep have been IFS, and Jeep has been telling us how great IFS is. Why not do the same for the TK Wrangler? Why bother building an SFA Liberty, when IFS will do?


For Mike and anyone else, I’m not saying the new Wrangler will be junk. It is still too early to tell what the TK will and will not be. There are many positive and negative possibilities in the next generation, and only time will tell. Unfortunately, the past changes we have seen from Jeep, have not been what I want to see. On the other hand, I’m not losing any sleep over it.

I'm not going to worry about the new TK, unlike some of the other guys. Where did the info come from about HYUNDAI building the undercarrige? I read that DCX dissolved their association with HYUNDAI, and were only using the engine design that came from the short-lived partnership between DCX-Mitsubishi-Hyundai (which by the way is better than the already great 2.4L 4 cylinder as it allows for direct injection).

Either way, the DCX will probably expand the new TK to sell more than 100,000 units by offering multiple platforms SWB 2-dr, SWB pickup, LWB 2-dr, LWB 4-DR, LWB pickup, LWB hardtop (i.e. DAKAR).

As far as engines go, I'm sad to have to agree that it's time for the straight 6 to be put out to pasture, not to say though that another straight 6 can't take it's place, just the current 6 cyl. Other engines hopefully will be the Diesel 2.8 (!) and mabye some incarnation of the HEMI (8 cyl or 6 cyl) with the Multiple Displacement System.

From watching the Jeep news on this site, as well as in the auto mags, I have come to the conclusion that the TK more than likely will be a platform for other vehicles to be built off of, and the next generation Liberty will come off of the TK platform, not the other way around. this would mean that Wranglers would have a straight front axle, and other platform-sharers would have an IFS, but with a SFA option (Liberty SFA!!!)

I am basing this prediction on past concept cars that each wouldn't be able to be produced individually, due to lack of confidence in being able to produce 100,000 units, but as a platform, could sell well over 100,000 units. Remember the Dodge M-80?, the Jeep Willys? the unnamed Dodge small SUV off the liberty platform? all of these could be built off of one modular platform in any wild combination, with the TK at the top of the heap.

On the lower end would be the compass, the razor (not a jeep), the so-called entry-level jeep all built on the next-gen NEON platform. These would probably be sold under the EAGLE name

I don't think JEEP will let us down; they can't for their own good, because, let's face it, We CAN keep our current Jeeps running indefinitely, if DCX gives us a piece of crap with a Wrangler sticker on it.

You're probably right ScramblerKen...We'll all just have to keep our 'ol CJ/WJ/TJ's running 'til they run no more.....that's actually a great thought...come to think of it!

It is still possible that the next generation Wrangler (TK) could be screwed up.

1) TK's will be built by 4 major players, not just Jeep. Jeep is only final assembly. The undercarriage is going to be built by Hyundai. I suspect Dana components will no longer be used.

2) DCX has been moving to using many common components between the various brands. To save costs, they are reducing the number of different engines/transmissions. I suspect the I-6 will be history as no other vehicle uses that power plant.

3) The Wrangler does not even sell 100,000 units a year. This is not a big seller among DCX (or Jeep), so to continue to make the Wrangler profitable, it is likely some cost considerations would be made. Just because some of the Jeep community is vary vocal, does not mean Jeep will listen to all our demands. Bottom line, they have to build the new TK profitably, and profits have to be shared between all 4 major players.

4) As Dieter has said before, most consumers do not care much about what is underneath the vehicle. I suspect the next gen Wrangler will look similar to the current TJ, but the suspension system, engine, and tranny will borrow from other vehicles in the DCX stable.

The positive side is we will likely see the Liberty diesel engine made as an option in the new TK.

Again, DCX could surprise us and the TK will be better than the TJ. Only time will tell.

Well no grand wagoneer, but the commander will fill that spot, as far as a rescue...well theres a 75% chance!!!! DCX knows they can't screw up the wrangler, I would expect moderate changes.