"Well thank you for the clarification, because none of us knew who it belonged to."

Jeez, you people are snarky. The guy's entitled to his opinion as are you.

From the list, I'm a two-time loser. We have a KJ and a Mini Cooper, which is ranked just above Kia at the bottom. Both cars have enough character to make it worthwhile. Haven't had the Liberty long enough to form an opinion on reliability, it's AOK so far.

Our last Jeep was a 2002 WJ. No problems other that the standard front caliper failure, replaced under warranty at 15,000 mi. The KJ is much more fun to drive in town, first impression is that it won't be quite as good in our moderate off-roading.

You're right, I forgot...a TJ with a coil-sprung suspension is more JEEP than my YJ..uh-huh.

Actually my Mom started the family's Jeep craze. We were a GM family 'til she bought her GC Limited 5.2. We all fell like dominoes after that.

The only reason I bought a Jeep was because Hummer wasn't in the GM portfolio then and GM did not have a capable 4X4 product.

Now I'm glad I have my OWN stable of Jeeps (XJ YJ ZJ) knowing what's around the bend for Jeep...now that the TJ is gone...all the CJ5/CJ7 are rotted away; it's just real obvious what the most durable platform is...The YJ...since 1987.

My opinion and nothing more.

Sorry, no offence meant,as these countries mentioned seem to be strong in some sectors such as high tech, but as I understand it, their motoring industries are still developing.

Well my interest has finally got the better of me and I went down to the Jeep lot after-hours to take a look. After seeing the Commander up close today, I really have to say it looks like a freshened Cherokee. It really isn't that much bigger, infact when I parked my XJ right beside it I was blown away at how similar it really is. From what I can tell its slightly wider and kind of looks like a cross between a Land-Rover Discover and my XJ with some "Euro" lights thrown in.

Overall I can't say Im overly impressed or blow away with the new design. For me its too long, I prefer the shorter wheelbase of my 2dr XJ. Im hoping the TK can remedy my blues.

""Most Jeepers are NOT into "Gee-Whiz" gimmickry when it's standard equipment...because they know in the end; it will break down and be VERY expensive to fix or repair.""

Wnen I go to buy a new (non-DCX) truck, where do I go to get one without without all the electronic crap that the American companies have proven unable to build with any reliability.

Sorry to hear Jeep is not at the top of the list.
With all their stellar and affordable product to sell and their top-notch and caring sales and service team; it's surprising they cannot outsell a Used Jeep!

When too many "cooks" (engineers) spoil the "soup"...it's time to change the menu. And many are.

The market for "Pre-Mudded" Jeeps is growing larger each day. It's obvious that the dependabilty of less "technology-laden" platforms and drive systems is SUPERIOR.

Ask any YJ/XJ and ZJ owner; and see if they're in the market to part with their ride.

I have more offers each day for a bite at one of my stable..(YJ XJ ZJ) then the day before. The market value of the same vehicle(s) is increasing too. Just a lark? NO.

Most Jeepers are NOT into "Gee-Whiz" gimmickry when it's standard equipment...because they know in the end; it will break down and be VERY expensive to fix or repair.

A few of us still know this....and feel lucky that OUR Jeeps are NOT afflicted as such as those(Jeeps) which came after................

And everybody else kicked Jeeps A$%@. Jeep really has to lift its game.

As an owner of a Mini and I was a bit surprised to see it near the bottom of the list. Our 2004 is rock solid but then again this list is for 2002 vehicles and that was the first year for the Mini. I know they had a few issues with the 2002s. Thing is, most of what I have read is that Mini has been VERY easy to deal with as far as getting warranty work and taking care of the issues that plagued the first Minis (cracking windshields, stutter under acceleration, etc). Our 2004 has had no problems but when it goes in for it's oil changes (hey, they are free, might as well let them do it), they always offer us a loaner if we want and always seem eager to please so I have seen them be nothing but accomodating. I can't speak to dealing with them on a major problem though, but like I said, everything I have read leads me to believe they are easy to work with.

One major complaint with the first couple years of the Mini was no usable cupholder (they have a tiny one but its kinda under the dash and doesn't fit much - but so what, is this that big of a deal?). I wonder if this list takes these small nitpicky types of complaints and weighs them less than, say, an engine problem. I would hope they do.

The key to any car, Jeep, Mini or whatever, do the positives outweigh the negatives? It's not just a lack of negatives that sells the car. There are plenty of vehicles near the top of that list that I would never want to own. If the vehicle can make you not care about any possible defects, it goes a long way toward being satisfied with the car. The defects shouldn't be there in the first place, granted, but make a vehicle that I can fall in love with and I will be pretty forgiving. I have to believe most Jeep owners feel the same way?

"My opinion and nothing more."

Well thank you for the clarification, because none of us knew who it belonged to.

I have taken this moment away from my duties as President of France to urge all to cease bashing our beloved French Renault YJ Jeep.

Ask my buddy with his '79 CJ...He'll tell ya how many times I pulled/towed his ride out with my 31" stock YJ...CJs are hot...if you're Daisy Duke.

LOL ! frank!...sometimes I wish the same....but in your eyes...the YJ never existed??>> And you all KNOW how I feel about the YJ....(heh-heh)!

It's a shame that CG engineers keep messing with things to save
a buck or two.
Perhaps, instead of cutting corners on components that affect
reliability, they can use really cheap steel and dies so the panels
have ripples in them and stop painting unseen metal - just like
Suzuki, Nissan and Honda. Just a waste of money when it's going
to the compactor before it's ten years old.
I've been selling Jeeps for nearly a decade and trust me -
customers DONT CARE if their car lasts beyond the lease term.

So Land Rovers are really bad, and we're just bad? And I was under the impression that the Liberty was above average on this count, at least. This may delay my purchase of a Commander, as I tend to be one of those avoid-the-first-model-year guys. I'm still not ready for a Buick!

The good things that came from the yj even though they have square headlights, is better rust protection, boxed framerails, 4.0L engine.

You know nothing of the heritage of Jeep. Sorry, Bud. The CJ is the consumate Jeep. There's a butt-load of history there. YJs might be nice, but they're not the CJ.

Ask most long-time Jeepers what the one Jeep is, and most of them are going to come back and say the CJ5. YJ doesn't cut the mustard. TJ doesn't cut the mustard (at least they went back to the round headlights).

For what it's worth, your little YJ wouldn't be anywhere without the CJ.

Wasn't it you, OnlyOneJeep, who declared that you were so impressed with the YJ you convinced the rest of your family to get Jeeps?

This really hits hard, considering my Wrangler has been garaged over a week with a clutch that went, and the "plastic" slave cylinder..my tranny may be gone also...86,000 on my 2000 TJ

hehe, yeah I hear that.

Speaking of reliability and repair costs...if your going to get a new vehicle and I'm not just talking about Jeep or Land Rover, you had better get an extended warranty or be prepared to trade when the warranty goes out. When I bought my new Liberty I bought the extended warranty package and the service package. Both of those packages cost me close to $2500 together but they are more than worth it. The extended warranty gives me 7/70 bumper to bumper coverage and if you trade or sell the vehicle before that then Chrysler gives you a refund pro-rated on the time left on the warranty. I had that on my last GC that I just traded and I got money back on the warranty not used. The service package is also well worth it. On your service intervals where the differential fluids and things have to be changed, it can run near $600 or so dollars each time and that adds up if you keep the vehicle a while. The service package that I bought covers all service including each oil change and tire rotation. So...all I have to do is buy new tires, insurance, and gas. With technology where it is now and where it is going, it will be almost impossible to afford to own a vehicle after the warranty runs out. We trade every 3 to 5 years anyway so it's really not that big a deal but for those who want to keep their vehicles, the industry has really made it real tough to do that. If I get the Commander or LR3 I will buy an extended warranty. When that goes...so does the vehicle.

"customers DONT CARE if their car lasts beyond the lease term"

Ouch, that really hurts. But I wouldn't doubt its true. I too have never leased a vehical to this very day, what good is a vehical that you basically rent. How can you call it yours? No upgrades of audio or wheels allowed, no doing oil changes on your own, all mechanic work is basically a rip off because you have to have it done at a certified shop. Leasing is the biggest consumer scam ever to hit the auto industry.

Personally I believe they have started making cars crappier so they can cash in on repair work. That is where the real money is. Why else would every car company have its own repair shop that charges 90$ an hour plus?

Im sure if they could they would build vehicals that fell appart precisly when the warrenty expires. Would sure boost sales!

I hate to say it but the only good improvement on Jeeps since 1980 has been Fuel-Injection & a bit better rust control. As for the drivetrain it has only gone downhill. To but it bluntly todays vehicals are cheap in quality.

It used to be the car company took time to put together a quality car. Now its like "we need a cross-over minivan, ok lets slap it on a neon platform, build the whole thing out of easy to mold plastic parts, glue it together, though in a cheap AWD system from the PT cruiser... opps we need big tires so we can call it a jeep." 6 months later it shows up in the lot and people eat it up. Sure it makes money (which Im sure a bunch of pro-compass people are about to tell me) but its a pile of crap designed to sell to people who will buy anything as long as its trendy. I don't care if it makes "good buisness sense" it pisses me off.

DMoore,

The drawback of Land Rovers, poor reliability.

I agree, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, even OnlyOneJeep. Don't let this go to your head, but thank you OnlyOneJeep for not being overly "over-the-top";-) Easy on the Doom & Gloom though.

Anyone get able to find anything more on TK spy pics?

At least my Mini beat Land Rover. Yippee.

as an owner of a CJ-7 and a TJ I can say this:

YJ's might as well have never existed - it's like a Jeep in Bizarro World. The TJ is the obvious evolution of the CJ - the YJ doesn't fit in at all (esp - good lord - the YJ Renegade). Silly little square headlights..... :P

CJ > YJ
Round > Square

If there is only one Jeep, it most certainly is the CJ.

Anyway, I think the 4.0L is mechanically sound. However, throw in the electronics, and that's what starts killing Jeeps reliability.

EMPLOYE PRICE PLU REBATES TO BE ANOUNCED TODAY 7.5.5 AT 4 PM

A Jeeper who actually buys an extended warranty? If ever an oxymoron..in more ways than one!

Go figure if these are the "new" breed of Jeepers...we're all doomed.

I think it is part of a promotional event they are hosting for a few weeks. When I saw it in the paper I headed down to take a look. It was in the showroom display, but right by the window so I could get a good look at it and pull my XJ up close.

Manual XJ Guy
Where did you see a Commander? My Jeep dealer said they won't get a Commander until September. Thanks

I get your point but it sure paid off on my GC. I had to get the bearings replaced and that would have cost me a bundle without the warranty. I suppose everyone that drives is a dream come true for car companies and it's no big secret that buying an automobile is one of the worst investments you can make. Still...I'm not quite ready to be a pedestrian yet.

Congrats, you are a car companies dream come true :)

I had an extended warrenty before, cost me 2500$. When the pilot bearing in my transmission went the whole clutch assembly blew up. They wouldn't cover it because of some stupid thing in the fine print, not only that I missed one of the stupid oil changes by a single didgit on the odometer and they voided my whole warrenty 2 years early.

In my opinion new cars are too damn expensive and lose too much value right off the bat to not keep. If you trade off every couple of years its like playing the stock market backwards. Buy high, sell low.

Anyway, its interesting to hear your points on it. Just a different angle to consider.

And if I heard correctly, some components of new TK such as chassis is going to be made in S Korea. How is that going to improve quality, suppose we lucky it is not India or Pakistan,

I enjoy following Jeep news, especially Wrangler, a real classic beautiful looking suv.
But for quality I drive Toyota. The last (new) Wrangler TJ (1998) I owned was always having some fault repaired I.E. air con noisy, Heater fan motor seizing, water leaking at my feet. I sold it when it was only one year old. Last year I nearly bought a new TJ , but noticed a not too obvious crinkle in the body that seems to have been from the factory, in fact often I notice bad panel quality on new TJ's doors, as if they had an inferior smash repair, and had always accepted that that was a Jeep thing, but in fact is poor quality.

I just want to know what the "problems" are that J.D. Power bases their rankings on. Are these real problems or are we talking about BS problems like loose trim or the wrong color blinker fluid? :) I have owned three XJ's and currently have a 2000 XJ and a 2001 TJ and both have been nothing but dependable ALL THE TIME! I had some BS problems with the XJ at first but nothing that would't keep me from buying another one. I can't speak to the new Dodges, i mean Jeeps, but the older models rock and run like the tanks with wheels they were designed to be.

I am not completely sure but i think the last Jeep acronym that actually meant something was he CJ aka: Civilian Jeep...

And everone though AMC was the demise of Jeep.

PS, the sky IS falling! :)

I thought Jeeps ONLY came with SQUARE Headlights???>>>>>

has anybody did business with collins brothers jeep in wylie tx lot of round head light jeeps there

Or maybe "Key(my) Jeep"...

i'm pretty sure kj stands for "kia Jeep"

Correction: What THE acronyms are?

Im especially intested in what KJ and TK stand for

I know for sure "CJ" is for "Civilian Jeep"

so I assume is TJ is for "Trail Jeep" being that it comes with a few off-road packages and options that the YJ didn't.

that would make YJ for "Yuppie Jeep"... must be special for Barbie right?

Lol, just kidding :) Just out of curiosity does anybody know what acronyms are?

some say that if jeep dosen't get with the times the brand will die. but if getting with the times means building crapy little awd station wagons. then in my mind jeep still dies, cause i ain't buying a little awd p.o.s. and i don't think to many others will either. i'm just afriad that any atempt at future vehicles will prove disapointing.

hopefully they will make the gladiator and make it simple. until then i will keep my xj until it dies.

One suggestion...if you can afford it....got to American Expediction Vehicles and have them build you a Wrangler or go to East Coast Rovers and have them build you a Defender 90 or 110. Then hang onto it! If I can scrape up the money for a play vehicle then that is certainly what I am going to do!

I would agree that technology doesn't always mesh with offroad vehicles but the situation that exists now did not exist 20 or so years ago. It is true that a Jeep CJ was a bare bones Jeep then and very easy to modify and work on. The catch though is that it was a dedicated offroader and play vehicle. There was absolutley no pressure or expectation for Jeep to make that vehicle a great offroader AND a great daily driver/family vehicle. Smart, wise, realistic or not, most of todays SUV drivers want both a good offroad vehicle and one that does very well on road too. To narrow that down even further, very few SUV drivers even expect or want their SUV's to be a good offroader. The truth is that most want a 4WD station wagon/van that can get them by in adverse weather. Does that make us that want our SUV's to be serious offroaders mad and frustrated? Sure it does. And unfortunately for the bigger part of SUV's, the on road drivers are winning. That takes us back to technology. When you are forced to attempt to make an SUV that works very well on road as well as offroad then technology is a must. It is virtually impossible to attain these two attributes without it. Most every manufacturer has all but totally forgotten about even attempting to make a real offroad/onroad SUV. Others may jump in later if the market demands it but we all know that that will never happen. You only have two manufactureres left that boast of their offroad capabilities and that is Jeep and Land Rover. We all know that they both have to be able to say that their vehicles are the best offroad since that is where their roots are. If you take away the need for them to say "Best 4X4" then both of those names die. Land Rover will always have to put their vehicles in the best 4X4 catagory because without that they have absolutely nothing to offer. This new Jeep expansion could actually be a double edged sword. If Jeep can really tap these other markets then they could afford to let "Best 4X4" catagory slip. That would, of course, be bad for all of us. On the other hand, this expansion..as I predict, could keep Jeep from having to water down their real offroaders. The stats and reports on some of these newer vehicles does not exactly look promising. I have no doubt that the new Wrangler and Gladiator will be competent offroaders but unless Jeep does better, they can forget holding the best "onroad/offroad SUV" catagory. The only thing saving them thus far is a great traction control system.

I am not suprised to see Jeep score so low.

The Liberty is supposed to be the most reliable product Jeep sells, and frankly mine has been a complete crap wagon:

* vague shifting - slipping tranny after only 24K miles,

* door locks quit completely, good thing the driver's door at least can be opened manually,

* rear window latch that mysteriously opens itself at random times. It's real interesting to come out and find it wide open some mornings, with the back of the car full of snow or rainwater,

* under 17 mpg? with a 6 cylinder and the size of the vehicle this is unacceptable,

* consistent incompetent and fraudulent "service" from EVERY Jeep dealership I have dealt with, Farrish Jeep in Fairfax VA in particular,

* 3.7L v-6 engine is beginning to burn oil and put out oil smoke on startup, after 24K miles,

and so forth...

I will never purchase another new DCX product, never.

cant we just go back to makeing ,cj5& 7

"customers DONT CARE if their car lasts beyond the lease term"

If that's the niche Jeep is targeting then they're definitely in trouble. A Jeep is not a widget, at least it shouldn't be.

I've driven Jeeps for twelve years, and beyond problems with the 02 sensor (not a problem after '97) and power window mechs (covered under warranty when they failed) they've been workhorses.

I don't know what the percentages are, but I can tell you *I* don't lease and I've always run my Jeeps beyond the 200k mileage mark with some hard miles. I also take care of them. My hope is that the Commander is everything I hope it is when it becomes available to see in person, but I'll probably wait a year and watch the recall list before putting any money down. And when I do it won't be a lease...

Dmoore,

I would almost agree with you, but Mercedes didn't exactly score well on that review either... Infact they scored worse than Dodge... something is very wrong with Diamler these days. What kind of car company has its luxery brand score worse than its el-cheapo brand.

Well I guess thats a good thing seeing how Jeep is soon to be a re-badged Dodge anyway :)

I agree...both Jeep and Land Rover have been notorious for poor reliability. Still...those are the only two brands I would consider owning. I think we will see both of them steadily improving. Ford helped Jaguar with that issue and I am sure that Mercedes will continue helping Jeep raise their reliability.

huh-huh, we'z bedda-dan Kia

I can't really say that suprises me, the cooling system in all the Jeeps I have owned has always been a source of problems. I really wish they would put a bit more effort into designing a reliable cooling system.

But for the most part that has been the only problems I have encountered.

This mix with Dodge Im sure has had an impact on quality as well, after the Compass and that other car thingy come out we can expect to see Jeep slide even farther down the list.

We kicked Land Rovers a$$!