Mercifully, this bit of stupidity has been killed!

http://jalopnik.com/5148147/cash-for-clunkers-plan-dies-in-the-senate

Well in part anyway.

ive got a few jeeps of my own and will not give them up due to the one is hard to get and the other is a 98 grand cherokee that just turned over the 200,000 mile mark on the odometer with jeeps legendary 4.0 six under the hood it gets around 24 to 30 miles to the gallon when run on cruse control on the highway

Why are people blaming Obama for this? He has nothing to do with it. If you take the time to read the release, you'd see:

"Two lawmakers—Senator Diane Feinstein (D-CA) and Representative Henry Waxman (D-CA)—need to hear from SEMA members that their vehicle scrappage legislation is a waste of U.S. taxpayer dollars that will cost American jobs in the specialty auto market."

Feinstein, first elected in 1992, and Waxman, first elected in 1974, are proposing this. Not Obama. Not Biden. No one, in fact, in Obama's administration has suggested this. It is Feinstein and Waxman.

Before you start bashing Obama, maybe take the time to look at who is proposing the bill.

As far as GPS tracking of Mileage for road taxes, again There is no legal precedent to violate citizens Civil Rights to travel freely through tracking...that constitutes an electronic checkpoint every step you take...Make sure your Senator and Rep. know that you know.
Keep that in mind when you Vote Repub-Liken in 20-Ten.

This is a perfect example of Government agencies not even being in the same ball-park, let alone the same page...The President, and the Greenies through Congress want fuel efficient vehicles...Bush already raised the CAFE for all cars and trucks to 35 MPG, and OBAMA accelerated it to happen faster.

The current standard sets a truck's mileage by it's footprint (Wheelbase x width) the larger the footprint, the lower the mileage requirement...They have almost instantly killed the mini-truck market, because a fullsize pickup can get a lower mileage than a Mini Pickup.

Since gas stations collect the road tax through gasoline sales, with higher fuel efficiency standards, Hybrid and even electric vehicles making fewer stops to the gas station, that means fewer gas purchases and fewer taxes being paid.

Now, the Government can probably make a case for business vehicles to be tracked by GPS, because they operate under a State License, and trucks are where the big fuel purchases are made...
But Vote out your Congressmen if they vote for this Crap for private citizens' private movements to be TRACKED by Global Positioning Systems and collated into a centralized computer system for anyone to hack into and exploit your personal information...Where you shop, where you bank, where do you work, where you drop off your kids to school, when is the best time to steal your car, when are you out of state, when is the best time to break into your house, when is the best time to stalk your children, when is the best time to sexually assault you...

To round out the other side of the arguement, less and less road taxes will be collected, especially if the electric car takes off...If you install solar panels on your roof to charge your car, they cant even tax your electricity to charge your vehicle. The fact is that this all points toward the need for a FLAT TAX and a NATIONAL SALES TAX to replace the complicated and inconsistent taxing system currently in place in our country.

The only way to FAIRLY administer this proposal (this is for the sake of argument, I am still against this plan) is to use a GPS based odometer which is not unlike the toll collection boxes (we call them I-Pass in Illinois) that use a prepaid account. This odometer would only have enough memory to count miles driven, and not store any information involving where and when the car traveled...A Vehicle Tax I.D. would be assigned and collection sensors would read the mileage at various random points an random days, so that movement could not be tracked..This, of course would mean that you would need to fill out a separate tax form for your driving tax to get deductions for work miles driven, necessary miles like grocery shopping and doctor visits...if you opted out of the program, you would be taxed at the maximum rate with no deductions (Rod Blagovevich figured THAT one out)

MMMMMMmmmmmm....I've got a taste for Pork...
Vote Repub-Liken in 20-Ten (Copywrighted-Mike Stawczyk Feb 03, 2009)

I think everyone is missing the point. If all those junkers are scrapped, we can then clear the car lots of all the 08s that didn't sell, and start selling 09s.

That will certainly revitalize the auto industry, and keep the unions happy. Also, it should help revitalize the steel industry & a slew of other supporting manufacturing industries, just in time for the 2010 models.

You gotta think big picture here!

OK, I can't take my own sarcasm anymore! We asked for this Congress and this Administration and, boy, we're gonna get it... Does this "feel good" yet?

In a similar vein, did everyone hear about Oregon looking at TAXing their drivers based on per-mile-driven, instead of (or in addition to) per-gallon-of gas? Oh, yeah! They're even researching what kind of combined electronic GPS & odometer gizmo it would take to simply transmit the data to the state government... so they could send you the bill. You get charged more for driving during rush hours, too. Sweet! George Orwell is even scared!

Now, I'm starting to feel really guilty. My latte' is getting cold, too. So, where can I purchase my carbon offsets? And, do I have to buy more offsets if I cook my steak on charcoal?

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

The BEST thing *I* can do for the environment is to drive my LJ and WJ absolutely to their complete and utter demise. I want to be a one-man war on 'planned obsolescence' I'll hold out on buying a newer vehicle and contributing to THAT carbon footprint until I absolutely HAVE TO.

And if any of these pinkos don't like it, they can have my carbon footprint on their asses

I have a '98 XJ. It gets as good or better gas mileage as Jag 5 years younger. It gets better gas mileage that the same year Land Rover. Actually, it gets better mileage than any of the current model Land Mowers. Can we scrap them, too?



As an aside gentlemen, bills are proposed in the Legislative branch. If the pass through Congress they're signed by the Executive branch. So blame your Congressmen/women for this malarky.

Act now by writing your Senators & Reps, lads, and this'll never end up as pork on some a bill that the president is likely to sign...

Like all previous buy-out programs, this one is voluntary, and like all previous buy-out programs, it will largely fail.

Any mandatory surrender of a vehicle would constitute an Illegal and Unconstitutional Seizure of Private Property...That is why they are offering a pittance for a car...

The money, like all other OBAMA programs will dry up by dealers clearing out un-saleable vehicles on their used car lot, or people dragging in old hoop-dee's that barely run anyway (we wont miss that 1978 Olds 98 one bit)...Let's face it, when was the last time you saw a 1975 CJ-5 on a dealer lot?

Jeeps are safe because even 20 year old Jeeps run better than most 8 year old Rice Burners and Euro Trashed cars, and 20+ year old Jeeps still serve a purpose even if they are driven on weekends, vacations and during snow-storms...Their owners just arent going to give them up.

This is our new Obamanation of a government at work already! I am sooo glad people wanted "change". This is the time for people to write their reps. and demand this bill is not passed!

It would make much more sense to subsidize replacement engines for older vehicles. Allowing those who cannot afford an engine rebuild to get a fresh engine installed with better emission controls, higher fuel ecomonmy, hybrid systems options, etc. Created jobs in the automotive industry designing, producing and servicing these retro-fit systems into older vehicles and maintaining the aftermarket parts industry for chassis and body parts. It is the engines that are bad for the environment, not the cars themselves.

If I could have a 2000 XJ with a Diesel and/or hybrid system that performs well I would buy one today!

So let's fill our landfills with scrap parts that can't be recycled, etc. and then expend more energy resources to produce a new vehicle which will get minimally better fuel economy.

This is the most ridiculous piece of legislation I have ever heard.

I am all for the environment. I have been hoping Jeep would get off it's $*# and produce EV versions of all it's vehicles. They have the technology in two prototypes that seem production ready, so they should stop dragging their feet and produce them. I have also been hoping Jeep would ditch it's gasoline engines and source diesel engines from VW to boost its CAFE mileage. I have been hoping that it would go to chromium free leather and recycled wood trim in the Commander, Grand Cherokee, and Liberty.

But the idea of crushing perfectly good vehicles to increase fuel economy is plain stupid. The energy consumed to recycle what can be recycled from the old vehicles and the energy consumed to produce the new vehicles will most likely exceed the energy these vehicles would have consumed if just left to drive.