I have always preferred Wonder Woman, especially since I got my first pair of Wonder Woman Underoos (last year)!!!

My invisible YJ with it's Golden Winch rope can beat the crap out of your KJ.

Yea, but what about Batgirl? You know in the end she is the toughest because she always gets what she wants. I wonder if she drives a KJ?....

Here is news item some of you might be interested in (as there have been some who have stated that Jeeps with airbags aren't real Jeeps):

---
John A. Perez’s attempt to import the Romanian made 244X SUV maybe permanently bogged down by air bag regulation. Cross Lander USA, Inc, Perez’s company, cannot import the 244X because it does not meet U.S. safety regulations. They are trying to get an exemption until December 2007 to give them time to sell a few before fitting the required airbags. Air bags are required in vehicles that weigh less than 5,500 pounds. Cross Lander did receive a certification from the EPA, but the NHTSA is the next obstacle for them.

Obstacles are supposed to be what the 244X is good at overcoming. The 244X is a boxy ex-military off-road vehicle, rugged and simplistic. It’s targeted at sportsmen and hunters who need an off-road vehicle. At a target price of around $20,000, it’s not pretty, but it sure is cheap. So what if it dates back to the 50’s, no one complains about Jeeps.

KJ's rule!

I know lots of engineers, I like big trains- they go fast

For those of you who are not familiar with the term "Yuppie" it refers to a younger age group of spoon fed adults that go out and buy whatever is trendy. Those are the people that go hang-gliding and kill themselves. A good example of the yuppie at work is a Dodge Dakota I came accross(4 dr exteneded cab no less... with an auto) loaded with the biggest fattest wife and 2 babys inside stuck in what I would call an impassable swamp. A total idiot at 4x4ing and now he is stuck so far away from any help with his 2 babys in the back and a fat wife who refuses to get out. That my friends.... is a yuppie.

Now like I said before... if you buy a KJ that dosn't make you a yuppie. Also the XJ is not immune to Yuppies either. BUT!!! The fact is the KJ with its "cuteness" (I would say similar to that of the RAV4 and Mini) is a Yuppie magnet. Rich kids grading from school, chicks who need a grocery getter and an avid bar hopping vehical.. it just pisses me off. Sorry but I work my ass of for what I own and if I bought a KJ its going to make me feel like crap when some 16 year old punk rich kid pulls up in the same car as me.

Funny as Heck!!..Sorry, Jon..my insurance did NOT go up..Usually I'm a safe driver....Though with my Jeeps I tend to get carried away a little...

The lady I hit was truly concerned about my injuries...since she looked at her Camry first; but as she looked at my YJ and what "didn't" happen to it; she then became quite vocal and yelled.."Look what Your Jeep did to MY car...it's NOT RIGHT that you have NO damage!!" and then stormed back to her mangled Camry..I'll never forget it..my buddy was laughing his a** off!

Someone solve the argument.Use a KJ and a XJ with factory offered skids,Limited slip and the tallest factory tires.....equal driver skills. Go wheelin' and see who gets stuck first.

I even read the lettering on the side of the Liberty was supposed to be in script, but was rejected at the last minute before production...further evidence of the KJ's intended market, that is middle-age, child-toting suburban female yuppies..Long Live the Cherokee!!!

To the real "OnlyOneJeep" ...

Your entitled to your opinion, but cut the crap. Your agrument is that KJ and the new GC are "biggest junk"? Don't feed me your bullsh@t. Or at the very least stop being a child and support your views with a fact or two.

Example ...

OnlyOneJeep in narrow minded and is not a true fan of jeep. For some reason if a jeep doesn't fit his needs, actually drive on pavement and off road, or has airbags it's not a true jeep. Because OnlyOneJeep is so narrow minded and is actually a jeep hater and not a jeep fan, I think he should stop using the name OnlyOneJeep and start calling himself OnlyBashJeep. Where's my proof he's a jeep hater? Just check out his posts on this site over the past couple of years. Hell, just the past few months. OnlyBashJeep, it’s one thing to have pride in your jeep, but you're a real moron when you bash the brand that made his favorite 4x4.

I'm not saying anything bad about the KJ. I'm just
saying that we all know how the XJ did in the long run
and we haven't had enough time with the KJ to give it
the edge over the XJ. Since some have taken the
opportunity to call the XJ crap, I don't mind pointing out
that the Libby is pretty silly looking and the best
compliment often given it is that it can handle anything
someone's wife might throw its way.

I agree.. my 2002 KJ has over 100,000 miles on the clock and it's still going strong...it's much better than my old ZJ and YJ...

I am serious, despite all the fabrication I paid to have done on my '86 Cherokee, it's still a piece of crap compared to my new Liberty.

Liberty >> Cherokee

Dean
Leesburg, VA

and yes.......Im still an idiot!

Yeah, but NRA-man is the Greatest superhero of all...Resembles Charlton Heston, and fights Evil-Doers with seemingly limitless supplies of ammunition stored in High-Capacity Magazines that no longer have to be stamped 'pre-ban', Insanely large bore .500 Revolvers, and his trusty AR-15 slung over his shoulder (now that the defunct-Assault Weapons Ban allows him to have a shoulder sling).

Here is a thought...and probably a fact that will really make you mad. Take an XJ and a KJ. Give them both lifts that give them identical ground clearance. Give them identical tires. Give them both lockers if you want to. You know what...your going to come out with pretty much identical offroad capabilities. I think most every reasonable person on this forum will agree with me. So...if you have an XJ...fine. If you have a KJ...fine too. Who really cares. They are both Jeeps and both good ones.

NEWS FLASH!!!

I just found a KJ and rear ended it!! Looks like over 2000 dollars of DAMAGE, and just a scratch or two on my bumper. Now I just need to go WK HUNTING!

Okay ... instead of using OnlyOneJeep ... How about OnlyTwoJeeps ... or OnlyOldJeeps?

And Jon was right, there are thousands of XJ owners who don't use their XJ rock crawling, or even off road. Also OnlyOldJeeps, why are you so unwilling to admit the KJ is a capable jeep 4x4? No one is saying you're wrong when you say you're AMC 2.4 is a good engine, I agree completely, but tell me what is so wrong about KJ that makes it not a "real" jeep. And if you say because it's got airbags again, trust me, we'll all be laughing at you when a Camry rear ends you and you end up with a fat lump on your head from hitting the wheel.

Yes, XJ in it's day was a yuppie magnet and so is the KJ, but the XJ or KJ itself is no yuppie.

Well I just wrapped a long weekend out in the rec-park. I counted 3 Dodge Dakotas, 3 KJ's, 1 TJ and about 10 Bronco / Blazers.... all stuck up to thier windows in mud. Seems to me the people that were stuck were all total yuppies. Just because own a 4x4 they try going through places most ATV's have problems getting through. I think the XJ & KJ are similar in capability & reliability... but the KJ seems to appeal to yuppies more than the XJ did. My girlfriend always comments on how "nice" they are... weather KJ owners like it or not... its a cute-ute and for that reason alone it degrades the credibility. Hard to say its more capable when you have to drive by 3 of them drowning in mud with thier owners totally dumbfounded on what to do about it.

**and YJ of course.

and yes.......Im still an idiot!

I wish! Unlikely to come to this side of the sea anytime soon though.

I was thinking it would be nice if they offered up a considerably shorter wheel-base version of the Commander... with a Manual & V8 Diesel. I like the look, but don't really need 7 passenger seating!

How about this diesel in a Gladiator crew cab - http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=105692

Ahhh screw it, anything Jeep is good enough to hit the trails with. Jeep is what brings everybody here together, models more or less reflect the times rather than the ability. I am going to be dissapointed if they do launch that silly car thing that isn't trail rated though. I think people need to start bashing Fords and Rav-4s more.

Oh... and I want a Manual Hemi... or C.R.D.
Why can't they just give me something to be happy?

Sorry Greg, I; as I am "OnlyOneJeep" know how to spell...That's probably one of the imposters...

Anyway...Everyone knows that:


CATWOMAN is the best..(and the hottest)...she's
puuuuurrrrrrrrrrrfect just like a Jeep....!

Clarification...

The little more lift is for the Jeep, not the wife.

OnlyOneGeep? Eh?

Holy cow, I actually agree with OnlyOneJeep!

There really is no need to impersonate him. He does a good enough job of making silly and unfounded comments on his own OnlyOneGeep.

As much as I hate to admit it, KJ has been designed to give it "yuppie" appeal in appearance. I'd like to see the appearance a little more geared to off-road, but it's the yuppies that help boost the sales. And that's not a knock on the performance by any means. For some reason I guess trac-lock, 4x4, skid plates, good clearance, and low overhang aren't enough for some. Then again, I always thought that if you want more, you make your own modifications. That's the same exact thing many do with their cj, yj, tj, xj, kj anyway isn't it?

Me, I've got a KJ because my YJ was to small for my camping gear on the summer trips I go on ... unless of course I was going to start strapping my wife or dog to the top (yeah, I know using the words wife and dog in the same thought could get me some trouble at home). Oh, and after the warranty is gone I'll probably look into a little more lift.

Batman is tougher, because he is not affected by Kryptonite...

There are about 45 posts on this subject and hardly even a forth of them make any sense or are even a little bit reasonable. It's like fourth graders arguing over who is tougher...Superman or Batman! Of course it has to be Superman since he came first.

Lol, I stand corrected on the Yuppie definition!

Anyway, Greg has a point too. At one point or another most jeep models have been Yuppie magnets. How many times have a seen a "Yuppie" drive a brand new TJ for a few months before selling it because they wern't ready for the stiff suspension and rough ride.

The KJ by all means is a capable jeep, I've seen them in action. With the right driver and a couple of mods they off-road well. I won't debate XJ against KJ... well other than I would personally feel more confident off-roading in an XJ. They seem to be a bit more pron to electronic problems when they hit the trails.

My overall point guys is that the KJ is aimed not at the world of 4x4ing as much as yuppies. The thing looks like it should be parked in a VW dealership.
My hope for the future is that the freshen the apperance of the KJ to be more aggresive, maybe offer an adventure package with bigger stock tires. But we all know that won't happen until the next "Yuppie" replacement arrives... those yuppies are born rich! Maybe that new jeep car with no low-range transfer case :)

***WARNING**** The previous 4/5 posts weren't mine.......

It's so hard to be me....

Whomever you are...(you're probably a yuppie..and a R A V 4 owner..)

Knock it off...

longtime readers of this board know when I'm making a statement...

get 'yer own soapbox....

.. almost forgot!!

The KJ is about as real of a jeep as a honda element!! The KJ is a yuppie jeep than can't even get out of the drive way!!

DC just needs to admit they made a MISTAKE with the KJ!!! I've spoke with engineers and they are ASHAMED they even worked on the KJ and admit is total POS!!!!

The yuppie stereotype
"Yuppies" refers to more than just a demographic profile: it is also a psychographic profile. It describes a set of behavioural and psychographic attributes that have come to constitute a commonly believed stereotype.

Yuppies are thought to be more conservative than the preceding hippie generation. Dispensing of the social causes of their more passionate parents (who themselves shed traditional values), yuppies tend to be 9-5 professional workers. Yuppies tend to value material goods (especially trendy new things). In particular this can apply to their stocks, imported automobiles, development houses, and technological gadgets, particularly cell phones.

Unfortunately, the fast-paced pursuit of these material goods has unintended consequences. Usually in a hurry, they seek convenience goods and services. Being "time poor", their family relations can become difficult to sustain. Maintaining their way of life is mentally exhausting. Sometimes, they will move every few years to where their job goes, straining their family. The fast-paced lifestyle has been termed a rat race.

Heavily influenced by a competitive corporate environment, they often value those behaviours that they have found useful in gaining upward mobility and hence income and status. They often take their corporate values home to their spouses and children.

According to the stereotype, there is a certain air of informality about them, yet an entire code of unwritten etiquette can govern their activities from golf and tennis to luncheons at cocktail and sushi bars.

Yeah, maybe but ask any musician or recording artist....

the 'ol turntable is better than a MP3...


Same with old Jeeps........

Sorry to all the 'hardcore' guys, but nostalgia gives way to technology.

I love the nostalgia of the CJ-2A, but dont ask me to go out and buy one as my daily driver...Mabye a weekend or trail toy, but not something for daily use.

The reason, the TJ is better, all around...and I expect the TK to be better than the TJ, although the TJ is truly a hard act to follow.

Same goes for the XJ/KJ battle...True, the XJ WAS a great all around vehicle, heck, it is credited as starting the whole SUV craze...But it was also around for 15 years...that means 15 years of evolution, fine tuning, and development...As I said, it WAS a great vehicle.

All of the lessons learned building the XJ for 15 years led to the Liberty. Sure the XJ is also a hard act to follow, however, I think the 'Hardcore' guys disdain for the KJ has also led Daimler to deny the KJ the same development and fine tuning that was afforded to the XJ, thereby denying the KJ the opportunity to achieve greatness in Jeepdom.

DMoore, I went to the L.O.S.T. website, and it looked like a whole lot of REAL JEEPIN' to me...

As I mentioned before, I saw the C.R.D. Liberty last weekend, and with a 2.8L I-4 Turbodiesel like that, who needs an I-6?

I have silhouettes of cars(stickers) that I've hit on my left fender....1 Camry; 1 Cougar..and 1 Reliant K-Car.....Sorta like them "kamikaze" stickers on battleships from WWII...

Hell, ya I'm proud!!

And I don't care about gas mileage....That's why I own a JEEP....

I am a greedy American Capitalist...not a tree-hugging R A V 4 owner!

Put a rock bumper on any jeep and it will have the same effect. Its a good feeling to know your Jeep can hold up to a small accident, but rear ending someone is not something you should be proud of. Maybe she can laugh at the gas pump when you get 15mpg and she gets 30mpg

BTW.. why does anyone even care about body damage, you all are real jeepers right? Even body panel should be dented and scraped, if it is not it is just a YJ (yuppie jeep)

I rear-ended a Chevrolet Blazer while traveling less than one-
MPH and inflicted $500 on it. My TJ didn’t even have a scuff on
it. The Blazer is so incredibly cheap; it doesn’t even have a real
bumper—it's just a piece of thin plastic molded to look like a
bumper. The woman was quite shocked to see how pathetically
weak and unsafe her glorified tall station wagon really is.

"Rear-Ended a Camry and did $1500. damage to it..while my YJ just sustained a scuff on its' front bumperette...????"

That is so funny you say that as I did the exact same thing to a Camry with a TJ and only damaged my Camp Jeep license plate frame.
I got a ticket for it and it cost me an increase in insurance and unlike "OnlyOneJeep" I didn't think it was anything to be proud of.

I think it is a joke to say that only "yuppies" drive KJ's and the XJ for "real off-roaders" The XJ's success was widely a result of the "yuppies" of the 1980's buying them. I suspect you don't even know what yuppie stands for and the fact that term hasn't been in vogue for over 10 years.
The XJ is a great Jeep and always will be.

"hard-core military capablities like the 'Rover LR3, Merc G500, ect...."


Huh? I've yet to see a mil-spec LR3, and don't ever expect too. They use REAL Land Rovers - Defenders.

And the G class Benz will be EXTINCT in 90 DAYS.

When I see absolute ignorance like this in the first few sentences of an article I stop reading. Whoever wrote that review doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

There is a way to put some of these KJ comments to rest. Like I said before, the KJ is a capable offroader but obviously is not designed to be Jeep's flagship offroader. I think we can all agree that the TJ Rubicon is the vehicle that Jeep has put out to be their ultimate offroader without a lot of on road considerations given. Obviously, the KJ was designed to operate well and comfortably on road while at the same time offering the capability that the average offroader needs. I don't think anyone here intends to bash the XJ but improvements are always needed. I would venture to say that 80% to 90% of XJ owners used their Cherokee in the relative position that the KJ now fills. The other 10% to 20% built their XJ's to be very good to extreme offroaders. I think RUBICONTRAIL.NET has already pointed this out, but the few people on here that want to claim that the KJ is just a softroader and a failed attempt to replace the XJ need to visit the L.O.S.T. web site at www.kjjeep.com. I think visiting that site will put and end to those claims.

Bash Jeep???-cause I actually USE my YJ to:

TOW heavier vehicles up steep inclines.....


PULL other Jeeps or trucks out of bogs they got stuck in..?


Actually run my Jeep offroad with only 31's and never get stuck...???


Actually commute to and from work..and take trips with it???....


Rear-Ended a Camry and did $1500. damage to it..while my YJ just sustained a scuff on its' front bumperette...????


Show me ANY newer vehicle that can do as much....with NO damage...and with original clutch and an untouched 2.5 AMC motor..still going strong at 145K...


Maybe then I'd believe that the KJ or new GC is worth anything....


I actually USE my Jeep...no driveway/trailer queen here....

And that's just the YJ...Similar story with the ZJ......


P.T. Barnum was right...there's a sucker buying a new Jeep every minute......when the REAL Jeeps haven't been made in YEARS>>>>>>>>>>>

A bit off-topic but Edmunds has a video of the Commander that shows it on-road. Looks like it will have quite an imposing stance, despite its relatively (compared to Surburbans and Hummers) small size.

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/104904/video.html?articleid=104904&pagenum=7&action=videos

As far as the whole quality thing goes, the XJ (which I own) was DEPENDABLE but it was no luxury vehicle. Quality (interior especially) was improved as the years progressed. Not everyone may be a fan of the newer Jeep's styling but that is not relative the quality or dependability of a vehicle.

Also, I love how some are berating the new Wrangler before they have even seen it or know it's specs (the chopped up TJ pictures that have been floating around tell us NOTHING).

Wait I DO NOT want air suspension, because I would be too dumb to figure out how to work it! I'm STILL working on figuring out that DAMN lever.

MAYBE a button would be BETTER!!

I had an opportunity to see a Liberty C.R.D. pull up to the Diesel pump today...

I was nothing but impressed...

The engine was Quiet, and I mean not just Quiet for a Diesel, it was Quiet, PERIOD!!! Nothing like what the self-annointed, auto-expert columnists led everyone to believe...

The Engine made a mild tick at idle, barely loud enough to hear, the average commuter wouldn't have noticed if they werent looking for the C.R.D. plate...

This engine belongs in the Wrangler...

I would also like to see a 6-speed manual with the C.R.D., however, reports on the NSG470 6-speed manual state that it is not quite up to the torque ability of the C.R.D. engine, which is advertised as making the torque of a V8...

D.C.X.'s philosophy is to use 6-speed manuals in all of their applications, with the exception of trucks like the Cummins Diesel, so I wouldn't hold my breath for a 6-spd/C.R.D. combo just yet.

To all of the Liberty nay-sayers and pooh-poohers, the Cherokee XJ was a piece of Crap when it was first introduced, but eventually evolved into the legend it now is.

And yes, I realize that my YJ IS a French Jeep, but that doesn't mean that I am gay or anything.

My dog and I both eat Alpo and neither one of us is gay.

I LOVE it when people copy my screenname...it REALLY strokes my EGO..Keep going.....

Sorta reminds me of the KJ Liberty trying to be a XJ Cherokee....ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

LIBERTY is the Biggest Junk besides the new GC and what the new Wrangler replacement will be.....

You people are too sensitive to admit the truth.......

XJ WJ and ZJ are the BEST JEEPS EVER Built...Period.

Keep wasting your time mocking me.....I have ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT...keep it coming lightweights..

And you "Camp Jeep Groupies" can eat my mud.

Well, since it is becoming another debate of KJ vs XJ I'll add my 2 cents ...

First, stop telling me how many miles your XJ has. My Plymoth Horizon had 192,000 miles on original engine and clutch and always got me to where I was going. Oh yeah, and it was a total piece of crap!

As long as you properly maintain and care for any vehicle it should last about 200,000, some even longer. Plus one or two people saying their XJ has 200,000 doesn't mean crap because that doesn't give me any indication as to how many original XJ's are still going compaired to how many are not. Someone give me a "real" firgure that actually means something on the XJ when it comes to quality and cite a respectable source.

Yes, My XJ has 275,000 miles and is still going strong with the original engine, tranny (unfortunaley an automatic), axles, TC, etc. I drive it everywhere. I'm sure hoping they make something useful to people who use their Jeeps for rough trails, want it utilitarian, and gets great fuel mileage (but I'll accept over 25 MPG).

We just purchased a 2005 Liberty Limited about 3 months ago. I have had several Jeeps from Wranglers to Commanches to GC's. Out Last Jeep was a 2002 GC Limited with the HO 4.7. I know many people cringe at the thought of the Liberty doing well but this is the best made Jeep we have had to date and that is over a 20 year span. The vehicle is very tight and the quality of build is obviously the best Jeep has done so far. I am supposing that this has something to do with Mercedes' input on quality control. Is the Liberty Jeep's best offroader? Certainly not but it is far more capable than anything my wife is likely to throw at it. It is built much better than our 2002 GC Limited. If the 2005 GC's are built comparably then they should prove to be real outstanding vehicles and the Commander should follow suit. If Jeep can get their quality up there and keep it there then I seriously doubt any other SUV is going to be able to touch them. The 2005 GC is winning all of the awards and the only place they lost was with Motor Trend which is not exactly biased towards offroad performance. The LRS's new gagetry is what won that event. Even by Motor Trends own admission in the article, it almost came to a fight over who should be 1st....LR3 or GC. Also, speaking of the Liberty, most all of the Jeeps that I have owned had the 4.0 6cyl. Everyone will have to admit that that is a great engine but I will have to say that at least with initial quality the 3.7 hasn't lost a thing.

Quality is a funny word. Reliability. Now that's more
like it. My XJ has 160,000 miles and shows no sign of
quitting any time soon. High mileage XJ's are
everywhere for a very good reason: 4.0 inline six.
Before you go giving the edge to the Libby, lets see
how they hold up after more than 5 years.

Before there’s a pissing match:

Capability … most would got with XJ

Quality … KJ has the edge

And on the quality issue, lets face it, 17th isn’t that bad, but it’s not something to brag about. The improvement is good, but breaking the top 10 would actually be something to be proud of.

Hey Dillinger...don't walk in front of any theaters in Chicago if you are going to make comments like that about the venerable Cherokee (XJ).

I am real pleased with my new Liberty. It's much higher in quality than my old Cherokee.

I agree; bring back the manual tranny for the more adventurous driver. Or, at least provide us in North America with the same transmission and engine options provided to the remainder of the world. Sure would love to see DC offer that slick six speed manual offered with the crd!

Why can't we get air suspensions in these new Jeeps?... That be
awesome!!!

Yes, I agree...you think it'd be pretty simple, but...

And... a LEVER to shift the transfer case....


Want buttons? Buy a BMW with I-Drive...........

One Word:

MANUAL

Why can't jeep produce a freggen Manual for all of these different engines!! I can accept that Automatic may be the box of choice for most people, but please! Leave something for me to drive around, Hemi,
D, anything with a moderatly interesting engine comes with a slush-box. Seriously folks, a manual is a true link between car and driver that is being lost in the world of technology. Think of it this way, when we are all complaining about how our cars drive themselves and steering wheels are a thing of the past... the next generation is going to go on and on about how easy learning to drive automatically rather than steer on thier own (think Im far off, then wait). PLEASE MAKE AN EFFORT TO OFFER MANUAL OPTIONS!! Can I have a damn
D or HEMI with a Manual???? Speaking of which (a bit off topic) anybody know when they plan to release a manual for
D... or Hemi?