After seeing the Commander, which I thought would turn out to
be a cool looking, rugged Jeep—not some frumpy characterless
box—I am even more terrified of what’s in the works for the TJ
replacement. First it was the Liberty, then the Grand Cherokee,
and now the Commander, these are three successive design
blunders. Who creates these things? And, what problems are
happening in the transition from awesome concept vehicle to
humdrum production vehicle?

Well, gas prices are on the way up again, and DC is releasing a land barge. This does not bode well. I find it disappointing that DC dumps these gas guzzlers on the north americans, while the rest of the world can get their jeeps with a variety of fuel efficient diesels with manual transmissions. Sure would be nice to be driving a wrangler with crd and six speed manual.

I meant to say the headlights DON'T look accurate.

I think we are seeing the Commander in this photo but I think the headlights are acurate. The front marker light looks correct but I think the headlights on this picture have either been motified in photoshop or the headlights on the actual Jeep aren't the real ones. You can see a heavy black line around them and lets face it, they aren't round and look plain goofy.
After comparing the spy-shots to this the overall shape looks correct except this one is lacking trim and nameplates.
We shall see soon!

i dont know about the pic. it seems to be a photo shop because if the commander is going to be based on the GC then why would it have a sfa buldge if the GC is ifs? and the head lights are square and i thought jeep was sticking with round lights. and lastly isn't DC secrative about thier new designs.

I think what we see now really is the XK Commander to be
debuted March 23rd. I recall the posting of the fall 2003 dealer
preview photo of the WK, which actually turned out to be the real
vehicle. We all thought it was just some bad Photoshop edit, but
it wasn’t. The design forums are having a ball calling the XK
“fugly” and boring. I consider the design to be a rush-job,
uninspired and lacking originality; it does look 1980s-old.

The XK probably will get some very bad press, as Mr. Rubicon
Trail mentioned. Many will say this vehicle should have been
released six-years ago, a time when full-size SUVs were selling
like hot cakes. Now, with record-high gas prices, it will probably
rely on huge rebates its entire life in order to sell, much like the
WK with rebates currently topping $2,500 per vehicle. Who will
buy this car? I don’t know.

I am looking forward to seeing clearer pictures in a week or two.

Yep, that is it.

http://www.xkjeeps.com/
Check out the photo at the bottom of this page to see what appears to be the Commander.
I don't know if it is a photoshop job or what but it shows the whole vehicle without masking.
???

Actually my square light YJ, to me; looks brawnier than the "cute" TJ nose.....YJ has a meatier stance because of it...I like square. Though nothing will ever duplicate the CJ/previous round lights...the true "original" Jeep look.

If no prototypes have been built, how can there be any
spy shots? Honestly, I have been waiting for this since
1997 and I am really excited. I find it ridiculous that
anyone would believe the wrangler would go back to
square headlights. It's a halo vehicle, they're not going
to screw it up. Relax and rejoice fellow fanatics!

my biggest beef with jeep is that they are 5-6 years behind the rest of the automakers and it's a trickle of new products at best. jeep was the catalyst in bailing chrysler out and since that moment chrysler has dumped on jeep...i don't get it

I agree, the simple boxy shape is what I think of when I think Jeep. I think the front end will be different. The headlights in the photo don't even flow with the lines of the front fenders! I think the front end will be totally different.

It looks to me like a photo shop product. I have seen pictures of the Jeep they produce in China and it looks just like it.

Allpar.com has updated its Wrangler future vehicle write up. They are no longer reporting a "facelift" for the Wrangler but rather an entirely new vehicle in both two door and four door versions.

Allpar is also forcasting a pickup "Scrambler" version of the new Wrangler as well. We can only hope.......

Again based on current concepts I would expect the sfa to stay. Of course this new wrangler will be a bit safer and cary these new safety features..thats expected. How are they going to make a 4 door wrangler like the current wrangler????? Mark my words.....A mix of the Dakar/gladiaror and the rescue,,,thers your new wrangler....Sign me up!!!!!

Again, to quote the prophetic words of Jim Allen from JEEP, ©
2001:

Will the safety mavens and roadless initiative supporters
legislate the trail-worthy, short-wheelbase Jeep out of
existence? Will it fall under the onslaught of the anti-SUV
movement? Will they kill the concept as “unfit for human
consumption”? Will Jeep premiere an emasculated version of the
Wrangler? These questions and more all await answers in the
new millennium.

Some said the CJ was the last true Jeep when the YJ came out, and the same was said about the YJ when the TJ came out... Cant we just wait and see before we make premature negative judgements?? I cant wait to see what they have in store for the TK(?). And a four-door? thats been begged for since the Dakar concept... is that not a promising sign that they have at least that in store for us?

The TJ may just be the final evolution of the classic Jeep. I really
wonder how large, refined, and complex a Jeep can become
before losing its legendary trail supremacy and distinctive spirit.
To me, the fun of the Jeep is its blatantly crude nature, not its
modernity; it is noisy, bouncy, unsafe, and actually requires a
high level of awareness and skill to drive both on and off-
pavement. The Jeep makes no apologies for what it is. All
evidence suggests the new Wrangler will grow larger in
wheelbase (by two-inches), length, width, and height.
Additionally, it will feature more electronics, safety features, and
will probably ride better. Spy shots reveal an austere exterior
design. Is this improvement or simply regression? Jim Allen,
author of JEEP, may be right when he suggests the Wrangler TJ is
“the last true Jeep—the only remaining tie to those heady days of
1940.” I know for certain the TJ will always be my first, and last,
true Jeep—there are no replacements.

here is my comment...

As long as the new wrangler is as capable off road and the current, and as long as it is as affordable or more affordable, I really don't care if the lights are square or round. If given a choice though I'd stick with the round or rounded look. Doubt I could afford a 4 door, but I'm sure others would if they finally come through on the 4 door.

ScramblerKen, W.T.J, and O.O.J., did you guys stock up on food, water, and ammo, and hide like a squirrel in your basement on Dec 31, 1999???

I have to disagree with you guys...

I don't know where this square headlight-crap came from, last time I checked, Jeep got rid of the square headlights FOR A REASON!!!

Heck, look in the Jeep supplier catalogs like Quadratec, and you will see that Jeep even sells a conversion grille to convert YJ's to Round headlights, I seriously doubt that the next gen Wrangler will flip-flop yet again.

Again, I will bring up the point that the Wrangler will not go to I.F.S. for one simple reason...Durability...Less parts to break means less parts to fix means less warranty claims to honor. And even if it DOES break, the S.F.A. can be swapped out as a single unit, minimizing warranty labor costs.

I wouldn't be suprised if there WASN'T a next-gen Rubicon model...As far as I'm concerned, I think the next-gen base model should pick up where the Rubicon left off...

After all, who out there doesn't feel cheated that they went out and spent their hard-earned money to buy the "Go Anywhere, Do Anything" vehicle, only to be shunned by the "Ultimate Go Anywhere, Do Anything" Rubicon, and the Trail Snobs who talk smack about their 'Rubi's' to all the other Jeep guys with a 4-banger and 3 speed.

As a note, Chevy did not surpass the 400 Hp barrier in the Corvette until just this year, not because they couldn't, but because they did not want to shun the buyers who paid $100,000 plus for the 400 Hp, 4 cam LT-4.

The Rubicon makes me feel the same way. Is the base model Wrangler Rubicon-capable or not? If I have to buy a Rubicon Model to get Rubicon Capability, then I feel I was cheated back in 1997, when the sales guy told my my 4 banger, 3-spd Wrangler was Rubicon-capable.

D.C.X. may have found a way to maxamize their Per-Unit profit in the Rubicon Model, but I feel the Rubicon is hurting overall Wrangler sales, because as Americans, we want the best, or nothing at all. The Rubicon gives the Perception that the base model and lower priced packages are less-capable.

I personally don't see the Wrangler getting Up-scaled, even though it may be getting Up-sized.

As far as things like hard-tops, again, give me a 5-panel removable hard-top system that I can actually store in the corner of my garage, and give me zip-in canvas panels that I can store in a duffel-bag.

Electric windows? Nothing new...Jeep has offered electric windows before in the YJ (I think it was called the Wrangler Night edition, had electric windows and a hard-top/moon roof, and showed a guy in tux and his date in an evening dress getting valet-parked in their Jeep), and places like Quadratec offer electric window conversions anyway, so why not make it an option, especially in a 4-door model, but again, it will probably be an OPTION, not standard.

As far as improving on-road capability, so what...we do have to drive to the trail, don't we? Who is going to spend $25,000 for a factory trail rig that they can't drive to work? (to pay for it) I could get 4 ATV's for that price... There is only one way to crawl over a rock, and I would hope that Jeep has figured that out in the last 60+ years.

In short, I think the next-gen Wrangler will be more of a bread n' butter vehicle, concentrating on high volume sales, models with option packages that suit the needs of the individual buyer, but priced similarly so there is variety without hierarchy, and performance for all models that equals the current Rubicon.

Again, just my views and observations...

p.s. look out for the Black Helicopters

Jack,
I heard that too. Real Jeeps have round headlights ya know!

I heard a rumer that the new Wrangler would have square headlights.

Again, The commander cocept was the 2005 grand cherokee, the commander you will see in the next week is based on the original cherokee "style wise". Now, "Land barge"??????? Its only 4.5" taller and 7 inches longer and 2" wider...Thats the size of a Ford exploder...don't forget the grand is on the small side of its competitors. If you don't like it...Don't buy it..I know these will sell like hotcakes$$$$$ I can't wait$$$$$$$

Perhaps I wouldn't be so worried about the next-generation
Wrangler if I hadn't seen photos of the next-generation TLC FJ.
Toyota took one of the most rugged-looking little trucks and
turned it into kiddie car.

that can't be the new commander. it does look alot like the
chinese version ( http://www.beijing-jeep.com/images/
bj2003_001.jpg ). Also, it just looks too old and out of step with
their concept designs lately with the rescue. I hope this isn't it
because it does look really dated.

I find it a hard argument about gas mileage. My 00 Wrangler doesn't get great mileage nor does my 8cyl Grand Cherokee. People that buy Jeeps or any SUV don't buy them for their gas mileage. People looking at the Commander or any 7 passenger SUV are not near as concerned about fuel efficiency anyway.
If gas prices stay high and go higher then I think that all SUV's could be in trouble at some point but I don't think we are there yet. Besides, the Commander isn't that much bigger than the GC and I believe it will be offered with a V6. It still is a lot smaller than a full size Ford or Chevy/GMC. It just looks big.
It seems to me that there was several people on this site in the past begging Jeep to make a seven passenger vehicle. Here it is.
And to all those wanting a 4 door Wrangler, you are going to get that next year. A truck, very good possibility also.
We should all be happy.
.

I think that regardless of what the headlights look like, DCX may get bad press for this vehicle. Looking through the forums everyone is complaining it looks old.

In my opinion, I like the simple box shape with the short approach angle. It is classic Jeep styling like the Cherokee and Willys Wagon had. It definitely won't appeal to everyone but I think DCX is trying to build this one for Jeep enthusiasts.

People complain and say that this won't compete with the H2. I do not think most of us want Jeep to build something gaudy like the H2. Most of us want simple utilitarian styling. The Cherokee carried the same box shape for over 17 years and still looks timeless compared to some vehicles that were produced only a few years ago. Simplicity ages much better than flair.

A little off the subject but if you check out autoweek.com and checkout the combustion chamber forum there is a picture of the new Commander without any disguises. It looks a lot like the old cherokee.

I hope I didn't misunderstand anyone.

Here is some new info I just read today-

This just in...JP magazine is reporting (Apr. '05, p14), and I will paraphrase---'07 Wrangler will likely have a 116 inch wheelbase in 4dr version, and soft/hard top versions will likely have removable panels...2dr version will likely stretch from 93.4 to 95.4 inches in wheelbase...Expect Hemi's and Diesels to be options as well as Rubicon packages...When the Liberty is of'd in about 2 years (They don't specify if that means 2 years from now or 2 years after 2007), it's replacement will probably be called Patrioit.

Based on this, some of the rumors we have been reading are true...and I will make some new guesses.

The Hard/Soft tops may be easier to remove/store, coming off in individual panels.

While the Wrangler may see some up-sizing in consideration of collision standards, rollover protection, and ride comfort, the classic Wrangler shape may not need to change as much as people are worried for the sake of mileage and emissions because, based on the fact that Hemi's and Diesels will be options, and based on the fact that Daimler and GM are working on a joint Hybrid system to appear around 2007, A Hemi option in the Wrangler, even de-tuned, with a Hybrid system, and the already proven MDS cylinder de-activation will provide better mileage, and greater performance.

We already know the mileage advantages of Diesel.

I am going to guess that having up to 4 suppliers sharing sub-assembly duty will not be a detriment to the Wrangler...They are what they are---suppliers. Look at any freight train at some point, and you will probably see trainloads of truck and SUV frames stacked one on top of the other being delivered to the assembly plant. Daimler is just bringing the suppliers closer to the final assembly point, maxamizing infrastructure by having one delivery point.

Some people have complained about DCX being in bed with Mitsu and Hyundai on the Wrangler, and even Hyundai sharing some Wrangler componnents, including jointly developed engines and frames for their own small SUV's.

Remember, automaking is a Global business now, and Daimler has to consider parts compatability with it's Asian and European markets. Sharing parts with Hyundai (a mid sized car company in America, but Huge in Asia) is a no-brainer for Daimler. I don't think it will dilute the Wrangler, if anything, it will make for a better Santa Fe.

Plus, if sharing parts with Hyundai and Mitsu brings a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty to the Wrangler, then all the better.

As far as the Liberty and GC having IFS, I agree, they are less capable than the ZJ and XJ with S.F.A. But then again, they are targeted at different markets. Nobody is taking their shiny new $35,000 GC on the Rubicon trail. In 8 years when the 'new' GC is in the hands of their second or third owner, we will see the true off-road capability of the I.F.S. GC.

The Liberty is on it's way out, period. The upcoming Dodge Nitro exists solely carry on the platform a few more years to recover the engineering costs of the Liberty.

I think the upcoming 'Patriot' will be both an apology for, and a re-birth of the Cherokee.

That really is the new Commander. It appeared in today’s Detroit Free Press newspaper.
Below is the actual clipping:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/skidsmadawg96/4afa6bd8.jpg

That photo is pretty convincing?????? Has to be a photo shop because the commander and every jeep built will has round headlamps and those are square...but the rest looks very accurate. I meet see the commander in a few days!!!!

If a 4-door wrangler is going to be built, then why build the liberty? just to share the platform with Dodge? I wish down here in Mississippi I actually saw more than about 5% 4x4 liberties, but there just aren't any running around. I see as many 4x4 cherokees as I do 4x2 sherokess. But atleast I know all of the wranglers are 4x4.

I was just kidding about that square headlight rumor, next to SFA vs. IFS there is nothing that will get a Jeeper more excited.
I love Jeeps with round headlights, even the Liberty.

The square headlight rumor is just that, DCX has made this very apparent to us that round headlamps belong on ALL jeeps, thats why the new grand went to the round lamps. If you want sqaure lamps go buy a toyota.

The new wrangler will be much like the concepts out there...SFA is now a re-occurance. Look for the wrangler to be very much like a cross between the Dakar/gladiator/rescue concept(s). Of course DCX is required to upgrade safetey features like the OCS and side airbags in the new products.

Mike,

I think you misunderstood a few of my points. If you go back and re-read what I wrote, I pointed out that the next gen will have pluses and minuses. This has been true for almost all of the major revisions to the Wrangler.

IFS VS SFA. I stated it is likely SFA will stay for now. Your comment, “Less parts to break means less parts to fix” is nice, but then why did the Grand move to IFS? Why is the Liberty IFS?

In general, DC has very few SFA based vehicles, and since the trends for DC has been to consolidate and share components, switching to IFS could happen someday. My other point is that DC has combined engineering staffs over the years.

DC can not afford to make the Wrangler so unique from the rest of the lines. Platform sharing is evident in the Dodge Nitro and future Neon/entry Jeep models. The Wrangler is no cash-cow for Jeep, so to keep this vehicle going; DC will likely borrow from other vehicles in the DC line.

The Wrangler has been the true off-road machine in the Jeep line, but consumer demands have been re-shaping the SUV world. All SUVs use to be more ‘truck’ like, but average consumers wanted creature comforts. Today’s consumers come from the computer-age where we have electronic toys for everything.

The simplistic and crude Wrangler of the past has a hard time competing with the new SUVs. Notice even one of the selling points for the Unlimited is that fact that the vehicle has a smoother ride because of the longer wheelbase. To quote the Jeep web site, “The 2005 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited has double the cargo space, more rear passenger room, a 10-inch longer wheelbase, and an additional 5 inches behind the rear wheels for greater on-road comfort”. Current Wrangler sales figures show consumers are not interested in the current setup.

Bottom line, I think the next gen Wrangler will be a mixed bag of change. Some will like it and some will not. Based on trends, the Wrangler will become less ‘truck’ like, and more on-road capable. Changes to meet safety will also dictate change, like the removable roof system. The engineers might design a great multi-piece design, or we may see it disappear. My other concern is with 4 major players in the process of building the vehicle, what will happen?

These questions and others will be answered in the next few years.

Since this web-site is partly based on rumors and speculation, I’ll put in my 2 cents.

From what I hear, the next generation Wrangler will be evolutionary, not revolutionary.

To the hard-core group, sadly change is going to have to come due to cost/safety/and market share. DCX combined the various engineering staffs in the past years, so the next gen Wrangler will probably rely on more parts bin parts. The next gen will also exercise a big change. No longer will Jeep and Jeep employees build the next gen, that honor will be split among Jeep and 3 other suppliers. With employees being shifted or transferred outside of Jeep, will this change lower the quality? With 4 players involved, how will the profits get divvied up? Will quality suffer as the 4 players fight over the profits or finger point faults to each other?

Jeep is going to have new additions to the fleet, and no longer will the Wrangler be the entry level vehicle. Is this a hint that the simple basic 4-banger model will be history?

The Wrangler’s competition sports all kinds of creature comforts. Are the days of simplistic and crude going away? I would not be surprised to see power windows/locks and other comforts added. When the average Wrangler owner does not even go off-road, DCX is likely to make the Wrangler more ‘average buyer’ friendly. Can the simple Wrangler compete? It feels like the final days of the classic VW Beetle. Has the Wrangler’s days come and gone?

The next gen will likely keep some of the basic styling, but changes will be made to accommodate safety. Can the days of the removable hard top be going away? Could we be getting a large sun-roof like that in the Gladiator concept? With a four door model, will we have a solid steel roof design like the Dakar and XJ? To meet safety, the width and length are likely to change too. I would not be surprised if the next gen is actually not as tall.

Technology changes will come, but not revolutionary ones. The old classic inline-6 will go away. With high fuel costs and emission rules, the Liberty V-6 and probably the diesel will come to the new Wrangler. Jeep can not afford to build an exclusive engine for a vehicle that only sells 100,000 units a year. The vehicle will also need to be more aerodynamic to help meet improved fuel economy. The slanted nose on the Rescue and Gladiator concepts is a good hint as what they will probably use.

IFS or SFA? Since DCX hardly sells any vehicle with SFA, IFS is still a possibility. My guess is the next gen will still be SFA, but this will probably be a tough battle. It is also possible IFS could appear later in the model run. I also would not be surprised that initially, there won’t be a ‘Rubicon’ edition.

The next gen, like past changes in the Wrangler’s history will be a mixed bag of changes. On the positive side; we will see a 4-door model, a safer vehicle, more fuel efficient, and probably a diesel power plant. On the negative side, the days of the basic and simplistic Wrangler are probably numbered. Early planning shows that Jeep is planning that over 50% of the next gen will be the 4-door model. Are the days of the short-wheel based 2-door Wrangler numbered too?

To compare the interior of a TJ to a Willys is silly. The Willys was really basic but a current TJ interior looks like a Mercedes (ha, ha) compared to even the YJ interior, let alone a CJ.
We have just gotten used to it and compared to other current vehicles it does look basic. I believe the next Wrangler or whatever they call it will just be an evolution of the current TJ and after it's been out a few years it won't be any more of a radical difference than there was from a CJ to a YJ to a TJ.
If you were to say back in 1977 that in 20 years Jeep was to have a vehicle called a Wrangler with air bags, carpet, CD player(with a factory sub-woofer), cruise control, anti-lock brakes, air cond., fuel injection, cup-holders etc... I can only imagine that most "true-jeepers" of the day would of thought that their CJ would be the last true Jeep.

Well to all "The Sky is Falling" Jeep Owners....Indeed as what WTJ suggests; I AGREE...I mean as Jeep has had many updates and safety freshenings since 1941, the concept has stayed true to the form. Basic Frame, Basic Interior, Basic Powertrain (Kaiser, Willys, Buick,AMC motors/drivetrain), Braking(drum/drum; disc/drum, 2 speed transfer case---so on....Even though I own a square h.light YJ...I will definately say TJ IS THE LAST JEEP.....As XJ is the LAST Cherokee. I mean...comeon now...

add ...

I find it hard to believe that they won't finally drop a diesel in the wrangler. You’ve got the liberty made next door with the diesel, and with the redesign you’d hope they make sure they’ve got it set up to drop the diesel in as an option on the wrangler.