Geez Louise...I just try to pass along some accumulated knowledge and...(yeesh)

For the Love of Pete JEEP!!!! Just build the damn thing and end my pain!!!! AAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously... leave the cars to Dodge.
End the Compass run, Build the Willys concept on the Patriot Frame, 5 seat, with the above-mentioned hybrid powertrain, 40 miles on electric power, small Diesel engine, 33x8.5x20 tires, 20 inch rims CVT2l Transaxle.

AC and Heat, AM/FM/Sirius, no CD player, get an Ipod, no nav, get a tom-tom. no spare necessary, get run-flat tires, no carpet, get a Rhino lining, no hardtop, just a soft top

HA! It's good to see the boards alive like that. Learn a lot, too.


I think the Compass could be retooled like this as well but a new name and new outlook would be good. I think a vehicle like this could easily be produced and priced somewhere between 15K and 18K without bells and whistles. There was a time when the Wrangler wasn't the only Jeep in the line-up that had a huge supply of aftermarket products. You had the Wrangler, the Cherokee and the Comanche (not so much the Grand). Give us another Jeep to build on our own time, Chrysler.

A two-seater wouldn't compete with the Wrangler for those who are simply buying for looks & street use and if it was more of dune-buggy/rally type then it would have a completely separate market in off-road. Plus, this would fit well with this ORT idea that they're floating around.

If nothing else, the name certainly has a nice ring to it...

I guess when I'm bored, the friendly sparring is fun...

When I look at the Compass, I still get the feeling that it could be cheaply transformed into a Rally vehicle or like this dune-buggyish concept vehicle, with AWD, stripped down (lightweight), getting 35+MPG & a $15K-17K price range, and make JEEP a nice profit.

Chip Foose, Mad Mike, Boyd Coddington, where are ya? Maybe Jp Magazine would take on the task? John Cappa, you listening?

Wholly flocking sheet. It's like a ping-pong match; my necks getting tired.


I agree with the above sentiment: they won't build it because they didn't build the Dakar or the Rescue or the Gladiator or the Willys. Concepts are more about possible features of visual elements than production possibilities nowadays anyway.

Hopefully, though, the design cues will show up. If Chrysler's dumping the Crossfire then there's no affordable 2-seater between Dodge, Chrysler or Jeep. All the 2 seaters on the market are sporty, roadster types. Nothing that can look cool while you drive to the beach and then take you over the dunes while the tires spray sand in the faces of those pompous saps sipping Perrier and...


...I don't know where I was going with that. There's nothing on the market like this in a two seater. A Solstice starts at 22.5K or so. They could build a Willys vehicle with some of these design cue and features, price it right and have a winner. Now that they have a Wrangler with more doors and more space, and with the Compass and Commander to go to that scrapyard in the sky, this may be a 2-seater concept that Chrysler could put into production. Again, there's nothing on the market like this and the "Go-anywhere. Do-anything" attitude of Jeep would be perfect.

I'd rather that the headlamps were more round, but I like the way it looks.



Just give me 30 or 35 miles to the gallon and I'll be just fine, thankyouverymuch...

Whassup Mark H Ur on right now i see..Too bad there is not a Chat room for Mikes Jeep news.

66 MPG was a Department of Energy study which looked at the amount of energy in joules produced by one gallon of gasoline, the amount of energy needed to accelerate a car capable of carrying 5 people, and the amount of energy which could be recovered from braking and re-used to accelerate the car, and so-forth and so -on...

The test car used nitrogen pumps aka Hydraulic Launch Assist, and batteries to recover kinetic energy, as well as Ulev engine , and the final numbers, on paper, and in practice were 66 mpg.

So, I wouldnt count on any car in the near future getting the X-prize soley on internal combustion.

I'm intrigued as to your quote of the "thermodynamic limit" of 66 MPG for a gallon of gas. Where the heck is that from? I've never heard of any "thermodynamic limit" that equates to any MPG figure... This would have to relate to a FIXED vehicle weight, drag coefficient, etc.

To take it to the extreme, if I put a midget in a pedal push car with a 2 HP weedwhacker motor, I'll get a lot more than 66MPG...

Seems like you still think electricity is free. Whether you PAY for gas or PAY for electricity, you're PAYING for each MPG.

And, no, I don't think the JEEP people or anyone else is trying to say that it is a true 100mpg vehicle, like I said before, at best, a gallon of gasoline is only capable of propelling a vehicle 66 miles under the MOST ideal conditions.

I forgot to mention in my previous post, that 66 mpg applies to internal combustion, a fuel cell may be able to get more miles from a gallon of gas, but then, a fuel-cell vehicle would also have a battery pack, and be able to do a certain amount of gas-free driving, so we are right back where we started from.

As a PIHV, the Renegade concept addresses the fact that MOST Americans drive around 40 miles a day of city stop and go, bumper to bumper driving monday through friday, so if you build a car that can drive around 40 miles gas-free, then you can save 5 gallons of gas (at 35mpg city) each week.

May not seem like much, but 5 gallons/week X52 weeks/yearX100,000 vehicles produced=26,000,000 gallons of gas saved for 1 model of car produced for 1 year..

Yes you would have to charge nightly if you drive 40 miles per day, but you are not PAYING for gas, and when you do use gas (or in this case, Diesel) you are getting 100+ mpg for the first gallon.

Now, most weekend trips, get-aways, family visits (at least for us) are around 100 miles round trip, so again you can get away, go to the amusment parks, state parks, mini-vacations (whatever you want to call it) on around 1 gallon of fuel.

In the worst case scenario, like a cross country roadtrip (which I have done many) you still can get around 35-45 mpg on the highway AFTER that first gallon, mabye more with diesel, and mabye more once the battery pack recharges on the run, and the motor is humming along at a constant speed.

What would have been a better concept would have been to use a NUVERA reformer fuel cell...It can convert any liquid fuel into a hydrogen stream, and only emits CO2 and water (which is re-used for the reforming process), and not have to deal with the limited range, fueling, delivery and storage issues of Hydrogen fuel.

Unfortunately, Daimler and Chrysler are heavily invested in Ballard Fuel Systems, and Nuvera has only come out on the market with its reformer fuel cell system in the last year or two.

Mabye everybody should read up on the Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles and conversions being test-marketed...They get around 100 mpg for the first gallon, and then run like a regular hybrid after that (35-50 mpg).

It looks like everyone thinks that a Renegade-type vehicle will get 110 mpg X 15 gallons of fuel. That's not how they work.

PIHV's came about, because Thermodynamicaly, a gallon of Gasoline can only achieve 66 mpg, and that is figuring on 100% kinetic energy recovery during braking---This will probably never happen in a straight hybrid carrying a driver and 4 passengers. This is where the battery pack supplements the engine, and that is how the PIHV 'skips' 60, 70, 80, 90 mpg.(that's from a D.O.E. study)

PIHV's like the Prius Plus conversion are already hitting 100 mpg (for the first gallon).

Like I said before, Jeep is shooting for a heavy hybrid concept, which will get 110 mpg for the first gallon, because the car will rely heavily on the electric system.

The PIHV concept is that...

1. The driver does 90% of his/her driving in the city, stop and go, around 30 mph (average) for a range of about 40 miles, and can be done on pure electric power...

2. The driver is taking an extended trip and the engine provides constant power while the electric motors accelerate and de-accelerate the car so that the engine can run efficiently (i.e. CVT transmission). the trip will probably be around 100 miles, and the battery pack can provide enough power to let the engine sip fuel for the first 100 miles.

(This is the type of driving that MOST Americans do daily, so the PIHV addressess this)

Look, If you dont like the concept, then you don't like the concept, but they (PIHV's and Hybrids) are already out there, and more are coming, and they can hit 100 mpg. And Jeeps (Even the Wrangler) can benefit from this technology on and off road.

Well, then I guess that $10,000,000.00 prize is a cinch!

Funny, isn't it, how JEEP & CHEVY are able to skip right over 50 MPG, 60 MPG, 70, MPG, 80 MPG, 90 MPG, and even 100 MPG, and say they're going to hit a 110 MPG bogey on the fly? Depending on how an MPG is defined, I guess a golf cart would have infinite MPGs, since no liquid fuel ever goes into it... So I guess we need some sort of "equivalent" MPGs to really talk apples & apples...

Until then, the amazing irony is that the Jeep Wrangler was determined to be the most "environmentally friendly" car on the planet (based on its entire "womb-to-tomb" lifecycle). Now THAT'S irony!

Like I've said, a "real" 40 MPG on the "New World engine" would have been an absolute home run for the Compass & Patriot (& Caliber)... but they barely hit a single...

Now, in the very long term, say, 30+ years, who knows?

Remember, when fission was harnessed? Around the time of Eisenhower's famed "Atoms for Peace" speech, nuclear scientists thought viable fusion was only 50 years away. That was more than 50 years ago. Today, it's still at least 50 years away. It's looking like 50 years from now, it will STILL be at least 50 years away... but sure... IT'S POSSIBLE...

110 M.P.G. is possible using the 'heavy-hybrid' theory, which basically has a small displacement engine idling, and and a large battery pack powering the electric motors providing the electromotive motion to propel the vehicle between inefficient modes of travel (i.e. acceleration), and the gas motor in direct drive only during constant-speed driving.

Unlike a prius-type vehicle where the battery pack is only there to start the car moving through the first 25-35 miles per hour, and then the gas engine is phased in as the battery pack depletes, waiting for a braking cycle to fully recharge.

Jeep is claiming 110 mpg because they are not planning to deplete the battery pack and drive 40 miles, and then mabye get 35 more mpg on a gallon of diesel...

With the electric motors doing al the dirty work, the engine is free to provide it's low rpm, high torque to move the vehicle along in bulk, with the motors fine-tuning the speed.

Chevy is claiming over 110 mpg for the upcoming VOLT, so this number is feasable.

You guys are all missing the point...

It looks like the Warthog!! The Coventry is coming! The Coventry is coming!

My sources tell me a lot of oil pricing/fluctuations is related not only to supply & demand, but strongly to refining capacity --which is limited in the U.S. (actually, consider it a "fixed" capacity because no one in the U.S. wants a new refinery built in their backyard --NIMBY syndrome! )...and yes, by the tight OPEC production control of the fraction of oil we get from the Middle East (the GIGA-rich greedy Arab bastards we love to hate!)

So much for real "competition" in the oil industry in a free society. Looks more like price fixing to us! Oh, well, can't do much about it from my Dilbert cube.

As for 110 MPG in the near future, the term WET DREAM comes to mind. I believe there is a standing $10,000,000.00 "X prize" award for a viable 100 MPG vehicle, and of course no one has claimed it yet. Hell, the reality is that lots of us would be ecstatic if the Compass & Patriot even got a measily 35MPG on the highway! At 40 MPG they'd be raging successes even without batteries, solar panels, hydrogen fuel cells, corn, sugar cane, saw grass, gerbil wheels, french fry oil, steam, hydraulic, or cold fusion options.

Here's the X-Prize link for all you dreamers. Hey I'm not against anyone trying, it's just that I forgot how good a WET DREAM feels, before you come to your senses and realize it was all just a dream... X-Prize Organization

Don't worry folks... Jeep won't be building the Warthog -- er Renegade. This was a chance for the designers to go a little crazy because the real story behind the vehicle is the drivetrain. 110mpg!!!

This type of drivetrain (diesel engine paired with a two-mode hybrid and lithium ion batteries) will most likely start appearing in the Jeep lineup in 2010 or 2011.

Personally, I wish Chrysler LLC had kept this development under wraps. Then they should have put the two-mode hybrid backed by lithium ion packs in the WK/XK replacement, pair it with a Cummins 6 or 8 cylinder diesel, and shock the world with the unveiling of a full-size production SUV that would get 60-80mpg. If they had done that imagine the looks on Toyota execs faces... he he, I laugh just thinking about it.

If it is using Lithium-ion batteries, probably the equivelant of what would happen if you turned a laptop computer over, or dropped it (most likely, nothing).

The Li+ion batteries are dry and very stable, and I'm sure Jeep figured out how to protect them.

Will this concept be built as-is, like the Viper? Probably not, but hopefully the technology will show up in the Patriot or mabye a Scion-priced Willys-type vehicle.

I would like to see at the minimum a basic start-stop hybrid 'starter-nator' replace the starter and alternator in all Jeeps, mainly for gas savings when the vehicle is not moving, or battery-jog for short relocations---

But more importantly for things like water-fording, and rock-crawling, where you would otherwise remove the starter inter-lock and use your key ignition switch to creep in double low---

With a hybrid system, and the Jeep in double low, you would need a simple tap of the gas to creep along the trail, with electric torque-assist.

what happens to those batteries when they get whacked by a rock or when you roll over? by the way that thing is ugly, i need my jeeps to be boxy.

I'd say it would be a good replacement for the Compass in this very striking stance and design. Would it get built to look like this, no. It would get watered-down and wind up looking like a Miata with vertical grill slots.
Do I like the ideas and technology - sure. I'll skip the soapbox and just say thanks from my wallet :)
Do I think they'll build it? No Whay. Dakar, Hurricane, Rescue, Icon, Gladiator, TrailHawk, Willys... I'm sure I forgot a few. What you might see are some elements of this design, and variations in this technology.
Just build em strong, build em open-topped, build em fun. Build a real JEEP.

Whatever you do, Do Not Try To Conform.
JEEP defines what a Jeep is. Jeep will never be a Toyota, nor does it want to be.

And as far as supply and demand are concerned, YES, we are an oil dependent society, which spikes up oil prices.

By switiching some of our power usage to electricity (Ideally by having each owner put up a solar panel or two) to power our cars during their least efficient cycle (stop and go driving) all of a sudden, there is less demand for oil, and oil is not as an attractive commodity on the stock market, making gas prices better for everyone by reducing demand.

Unfortunately, it doesn't take an entire country to fund the 'war on terror', just sympathetic individuals within the region.

I'm sure that the COUNTRY of Saudi Arabia isn't funding terrorism, but I'd bet that regional leaders are behind the government's back.

I do recall asking for a VOLT-type PIHV to be built by JEEP, this is awesome!!!

I guess the JEEP people DO read this site---Thanks Guys and Gals!!! (Would I be asking too much to make it Amphibious?).

Fuel cells are still a decade away from mass production, and still won't match liquid fuel's and internal-combustions range and power when they reach mass production...

40 mile EV-only range hybrids are the answer to the nation's energy crisis, 90 percent of the nations drivers spend 90 percent of their driving time in stop and go, city traffic---a driving envelope that can be powered by electricity.

Sign me up for a garage-roof full of solar cells to charge it, and a Biodiesel reaction chamber too!!!

Forget the 'greenies'---this is about ending the war on terror by cutting off the funding being funneled to the terrorists---not cutting off the funding to our armed forces.

Build it JEEP, as a matter of fact, build all Jeeps like this!!!!

and p.s. Sign me up!!!!