Well that's it, the begining of the end of Manuals... I can barley wait for the removal of the steering wheel and pedals in an effort to make driving easier yet.

here is my comment
What aabout a diesel in the Wrangler!!

Don't be such a JON, Dick..............

That is hilarious!

Great, the main title reads...

"The Diesel Engine Is Also Now A Whole Lot More Un-American"


And my favorite part is how they talk about automatics

"A five-speed automatic option is also available should you want the software to do the thinking for you."

Yep, sorry to say thats the car Im waiting for. The Un-Americain dream... shoot me now pa!

I think part of the reason Manual Transmissions are not offered in the Cherokee and Commcander is because they are not designed for that type of market, like someone wanting to hit the open road like Route 66 or the AlCan Highway, and leave it in overdrive...

A manual is only for the most dedicated driver, and I could imagine, it would be a little tedious in a vehicle as large as the Cherokee/Commander platform-On American Roads...

I wouldnt expect to see a Manual Transmission in the Cherokee, but dont count out the Commander for a future 6-speed...

The 6-speed NSG-470 trans found in the current Wrangler is not quite up to the torque capacity of the Hemi, and borderline on the 2.8 C.R.D. engine...

Again, American roads are not like European roads, and an engine/transmission combo that may work great in the twisty back-country roads of Great Britan, Ireland, France, or even the AutoBahn may not be able to stand up to the punishment of continuous stop and go American Traffic.

That is not to say that Daimler may not be working on it. There are several transmissions out there that can do the job, like the ZF 6-speed found in the GTO, or Corvette, or the Keisler 6-speed made for retrofit into big block muscle cars...

Looking at the composition of American Automobiles overall, we see Manual Transmissions mostly in sports cars, or economy cars. The Cherokee and Commander are neither of these...

I would say that the Wrangler is closest to a sports-car, much more so than the Cherokee/Commander, and the Liberty is more of an economy car than the Cherokee/Commander.

Any way, I wouldn't equate the lack of a stick shift in the Cherokee/Commander to the DEMISE of the Manual Transmission...The future is right around the corner.

It ain't a Jeep unless it's a stick.

The Grand Wagoneer, Grand Cherokee,
Cherokee are exempt from the above statement.

The Iconic Wrangler is what I mean.

I agree that it is totally a matter of preference, which was my point to begin with (although lost in the rant). There are people from both sides of the fence with various reasons and preferences. Why dosn't DC see that?

As far as clutchless manual-slush boxes, it may be your preferance... but not mine and there is no way you can convince me they are more fun! I still think that nothing beats the feel of running through a set of real gears. Hey, preference right !

I'll always remember what my mother-in-law said when I traded my manual pickup for a minivan with an automatic. "Now you have two cars you BOTH can drive". A definite "yes dear" moment. They put a stick in the Gladiator, I'm there in a heartbeat.

The first vehicle I ever purchased, over twenty years ago, was a cj5 and I have been purchasing manual tranny jeeps since that time. But, the first manufacturer that provides a manual transmission with their diesel suv will be my next purchase. I suspect their are still numbers of people who enjoy the adventure of driving.

I do not think it is a technical issue. As stated here, stick shifts are used in the WH (export version of the WK) and in vehicles more powerful. I believe it comes down to the fact that a majority of US Jeep buyers were opting for the automatic.

While the stick shift can be more "fun" to drive and gives the user a sense of more control, most drivers find it more of a hassle in day-to-day commuting. In areas where there is a lot of stop and go traffic it can get to be real tedious. Also, there is a perception (whether valid or not) that the stick shift is for more economy cars. This is the reason I do not expect to see the return of a stick shift to the Grand Cherokee or Commander (vehicles which are marketed as off-road capable luxury SUVs).

The stick shift is already available in the KJ and will most likely be available in all versions (2-Door, 4-Door, and the rumored pickup) of the Wrangler platform. I also would not be surprised to see a stick shift available in the Scout / Compass as a stick shift is the base transmission on the current generation Neon.

While everything said is logical as a dedicated Manual Guy I would still buy a Commander or Grand Cherokee if they offered up a Manual. I don't know who decided that big cars with big engines must be offered with an Auto.

I've driven the big diesel Dodge RAM dually with a manaul and I never had any problems manuovering with it (other than the brakes were extremly touchy for some reason). It was a fleet vehical for a Logging company so I also had the chance to take it through some pretty rough terrain to get to the job site. Quite frankly That engine makes the C.R.D. 2.8L look like a penut, just one example that manual isn't just for sports cars.

This is the same battle I have to wage on people about the diesel all the time. "Its stinky and slow, it wrecks the environment". The makeup of the diesel exhuast has ALWAYS been better as far as greenhouse gases go, just because its seen as a big black cloud rather than a invinsible more toxic one (such as the kind that comes out of gas engines) it is "BAD". There is the way things seem and the way things are.

Manaul is not just for sports cars, it shows up in work trucks and bigger engines than the C.R.D. and even Hemi everyday. Its a matter of application, they aim most of the jeep lineup at grocery getters now. The Commander and Grand Cherokee are literally vehicals for the wife (no offence to any wifes who are avid 4x4 girls), vanity mirrors and extra plug-ins for accessories. Then they turn around and show it on top of a mountain for advertising.

I got nothing against the YJ, TJ. But for me I want an SUV. I pack stuff all the time, I like to do long road trips, ect. The Liberty is just a touch too small and way to "Girly" for me. I would kill for a Grand Cherokee to come with a manual. But because the powers that be have decided against it I will have to settle for a C.R.D. manual KJ... whenever that is. (which I fully intend to rip its cute front end off and replace with something more Gladiator like)

Remember: Enzo Ferrari said the Jeep was "America's ONLY real
sports car."

DC has like 3 different Diesel engines in Europe including an upcoming Hemi Diesel. All of which I might add have manual options. Id import one, but they damn steering wheel is on the wrong side... crazy Europeans! Like how hard is it to bring that technology here?

What I find most interesting is that the diesel is offered with manual transmission in, for example, Europe and Africa. Does DC believe the North Americans are perhaps berift of the psychomotor skills to drive a manual or perhaps we somehow lack the spirit of adventure that the Europeans or Africans possess. Personally, I need a vehicle that will get me around the mountains and dirt roads I live on and not a gas guzzling hemi that will blow off a bmw.

Diesel is the way to go right now for fuel economy, hybrids flat out suck. First of all the battery life is fairly short and a new battery is half the cost of the vehical. Secondly you can kiss the fun of driving goodbye as your vehical engine basically runs like a 1980's automatic, totally disconnected from what your gas pedal is doing. Finally in reading several articals they say that it will take you 10 years of so called "savings at the pump" to equal the amount extra paid for such a vehical. Nobody knows the long term reliability, I can't imagine its good and the parts must be 10 times more expensive.

All the power to Jeep with this new Mercedes based engine, I hope they put it into every model. Be nice if they hooked that new 6spd up to it.

Cheers!

well then shut up!

I, for one- Am NOT waiting for the New Jeeps....

Don't Care....

Got my 3.

'nuff said.

The diesel Liberty is a great idea. But it should be expanded to the Wrangler as well. Jeep should also address product development at the smaller end of their lineup. I am still waiting for a mini Wrangler, "Samurai" sized Jeep.

Indeed, not a technical issue.
Infact check out this review of the Jeep "Cherokee" from the UK

Sorry the link is a little long
www.caranddriving.com/exchange/ncrt_c.asp?id={C0CBBB90-224F-4CD9-A687-995D063843C7}&maker=CHRYSLER+JEEP

Lets see.... 2.8L C.R.D. engine
6 Speed Manual
Looks like a Liberty if Im not correct?

There it is in living color, alive and well over in the UK. Too good for us "FAT" and "LAZY" North Americains that the car company has depicted us as . Apparently anybody who has money has been deemed in-capable of driving a manual.

Anybody else sick of this image?

Im depressed Im going to eat a dogfood bag sized bag of patato chips and watch reality TV all day.

Ok...Mabye my Diesel Liberty is running on Hemp Biodiesel....

But where in this article was the demise of the Manual Transmission ever even mentioned???

I read it, and read it, and read it...

I saw nothing, nothing about the demise of the Manual Transmission...

Nonetheless, last time I checked, the TJ had a 6 (six) speed Manual Transmission, and for that matter, Daimler is switching nearly all of its Manual Transmissions to 6- speeds for economy and durability, the exception being the highest torque producers such as the HEMI and the Cummins Turbo Diesel, which will stick to 5 speeds or automatics...

If there is a demise of the Manual Transmission, it is probably because there is something better around the bend...

I wouldnt worry too much, BMW is working on a Dual clutch 6 speed transmission, no shift overlap, one gear is always engaged, one gear is always on the 'on deck circle'...shifting is simply a matter of the previous gear being disengaged, while the upshift gear is already engaged...

There will always be a manual option for vehicles...

1. Mileage and Emissions testing are always done on a manual. Why? As efficient as automatic transmissions may be, they still cant beat a maunal in the efficiency of the transfer of torque to the drivetrain. Advertised rear-wheel horsepower numbers are also based on Manual Transmission cars.

2. Manual Transmissions are more durable, as there is no hydraulic pressure inside of the gearbox...This leads to fewer warranty claims against Manuals...

3. Manual Transmissions cost less to produce...that is why they charge a premium for an Automatic Trans.

Once again...Paranoia runs deep in Mikes Totally Free Jeep News...

Personally, I love a manual. It is just more fun to drive. I prefer a manual in everything but bumper to bumper LA style traffic.

However, when 4wheeling I have to say I prefer the auto. The manual is more fun to 4wheel, but the auto makes the vehicle more capable. There is no way you can really crawl as slow with an manual unless you have super low gears or want to burn up your clutch. But for everyday driving give me the manual. Just need a way to swap transmission as easy as you can shift into 4wd.

Actually the steering is only on the right side for vehicles in UK (not ALL of Europe).

Damn these boards are addicting :)

Its suprising with all the benifits you mentioned that the Grand Cherokee & Brand New Commander are both manual-less. This is where my paranoia keeps coming into play, HALF!! HALF the jeep line-up at the moment features ONLY automatic. If you browse back at the whole DC lineup its over the half-way mark now for ONLY automatics.

Did anyone consider that maybe the new wrangler may not even have a manual option anymore? If it does its only going to be on the base engine and certainly not going to be offered on the HEMI or a Diesel. The new SRT Grand Cherokee is a super sports truck... powered with an Auto. No manual options there.

I just can't get over that all of these new cars & interesting new engines from DC... all have no manual. Guess I could always buy a hopped up SRT Neon (blaaa)... I'll be sure to get a big gold chain, wear my hat sideways and crank up the gangsta rap dudes... *sigh*

Hey, I just thought of something. If everyone starts driving manuals again, how the heck will they talk on their cell phones?

It's great to see that DCX is willing to make as many
D KJs as they can, but when are they going to certify them for the CARB states? If I ever had to replace my XJ I'd be willing to put up with the Kia-alike looks and IFS to get a modern diesel in a Jeep.

Further, re: 40mpg.org: while I applaud their efforts in trying to improve fuel economy, why have they fixated (much like the rest of the buying public) on hybrids as the only way to do this? Between the weight penalty, drivetrain complexity, and ultimate need for battery disposal, hybrids are not a well-thought-out technology at this point in time, and it's disappointing to see that the California legislature (which, the last time I checked, was not comprised of automotive engineers) can set a de facto mandate for the rest of the nation in terms of the technologies used for next-generation drivetrains.

Manual XJ Guy, you make it sound like driving a stick shift and using a clutch is some special ability that takes superhero grace and coordination. Please. Get over yourself.

Manual slushes are more fun, and useful in some off-road situations (less in others). It's a matter of preference, and nothing else.

See this is what I don't get, lots of people crave for a manual and some big shot at the car companies decides that they are only going to sell automatics.

Im not against automatics, infact for people who suck at driving it allows them to focus more on not hitting other drivers. Its also good for old people that are too tired to operate the clutch pedal, the tiptronic makes people who just don't have time to learn to drive properly still feel in control... even though they arn't really. Anybody who uses the excuse "I live in the city and manual just isn't practical" your full of it. I live in a city and my manual saves me a ton of fuel at the end of the day.

Ok.... I know it sure sounds like Im against them :) But hey, Im all about "equal" opportunities, DC is really droppping the ball on this one. Not just in Jeep brand products, but in the Dodge & Crysler brands as well. I can't figure out why they don't offer up a manual at all in the Grand Cherokee, the 300C... or the Dodge Charger. Prime candidates with waiting buyers that will turn elsewhere in the end. Well this concludes another rant that will never make it to DC.

I too am looking for the first SUV powered by Diesel through a manual. Im a big jeep fan, but if they can't produce the goods... well I'll leave it at that. Get it together DC, your avid buyers wait.... but not forever.