I'm suspicious-- your idea of fun must be gang-banging your six wives...........................while playing the banjo.......................................wait a minute............................that sounds like fun!!. Please tell me this : it's not a porno of the seven of you in a vat of Pina Colada or any freakiness like that , is it? On a related perverted note, I'ts a damn shame that the Liberty back seat doesn';t fold flat . Now that IS a bad thing, right , dudes? When you take your girl/wife(s) out for a night of "camping"( fucking), you want to have room to take care of business. If there's a bad thing about the Liberty this is it. You'd think Chrysler engineers, of all people, would realize that this is necessary to increase space. Actually, it's kinda weird. Since when do vehicles have fewer moving interior pieces???? Your thoughts please.

Patrick, is that the best you can do?
And Jerry C....Now you have upset my 6 wives....who all love my banjo playing!!
Anyway, the more I read about the Liberty, the more I am convinced that you both should rush out and buy one right away!!
P.S. You both might want to move to this new Posting board, where you are sure to find other Liberty fans!!
http://www.JeepLiberty.com/~girlsjustwannahavefun.htm

Utah-- for your information, the banjo is a great instrument. You wouldn't sterotype, would you? I wonder if you play an instument? (I don't mean the skin flute, either--Lord knows you're undoubtedly a fellatio emeritus when it comes to that). Go jump in the Great Salt Lake, why doncha? P.S. I didn't know Mormons liked Jeeps!

True some women like cute utes, but most drive grand cherokees and suburbans, especially to the mall. As for wranglers, they are like a training bra... the young girls drive them until they need more room for the metaphoric family. And Xterras, I don't believe one owner has used the sport rack on their glorified Frontier, but many have added a Winnie The Pooh sunshade to the rear window. See despite what obsession with solid axles and looks you have, they still stay only on the road. And despite your problems with IFS and modern looks, many will still go offroad. So who cares...its here and will continue, so get over it. Perhaps we should now deal with the inbreeding of the hicks that have posted here. But it's just my opinion.... relax.

looks like Babs loves her Liberty....proving to me once and for all....The Liberty is for girls....like all the other cute Utes out there. Of course, girly-men like Joe-Nos will also like it.

Thanks for the informative Info Jerry C. I wish all Jeep owners were as sensible as you. Then there would be more Jeep owners!

Joe "thinks Jerry C. is a JEEPGOD" Nos

I am not here to call anybody names or to question their manhood or womanhood for that matter. This post is to relay what I thought of the Liberty
that I drove earlier today. The first thing that hit me as I walked up to the
KJ was how tall the vehicle is compared to the XJ. However, even though the
KJ is said to be about 7 inchs longer than the XJ (probably the outside spare)
it seemed to me to be to short for its height. I then proceeded to open the
drivers door which also seemed to be much more substantial than that on my
XJ. As I looked inside at the two tone tan cloth interior I was impressed with
quality of the materials. The front seats are much larger and better bolstered
than that of the Cherokee. As I climbed into the vehicle it seemed to be just
a tad bit taller than the XJ. Being 5'11" and about 240lbs I had to move the seat back to be comfortable. I was a little dissappointed in the seat travel which
seemed to be about the same, regardless I had no problem finding a comfy
position. The model I was looking at was a Limited, V-6 auto that stickered at
$23,675. As I looked at the dash I was not impressed with the bright work on
the steering wheel or the dash, the salesman told me that the bright work only
comes on the limited model, the sport model is a matching interior color. I
then proceded to leave the lot for the test drive, as I was doing this the steering
wheels was not locked and was moving up and down as I drove, talk about a strange feelings. The salesman then pointed out a rather long lever under the
wheels that needs to be pushed up to the column to look the wheel. This thing
is very quite, smooth and yes, car like on the road. The biggest difference you
feel when drivivg this vehicle is the extra headroom. The taller glass area of the door adds to this feeling. It almost seems as if you are higher off the ground in this verses the Cherokee, even though I think in reality its about the
same. The V-6 auto is a quite, smooth and refined powertrain, but I would prefer that 5-speed if I were considering a purchase. Even though I did not crawl under the Liberty with a tape measure the ground clearance seemed to be
about the same as the XJ. Of course that was sitting on the dealers lot not in
an off-road setting. Knowing the salesman since high school (about three decades ago ) has its advantages. He told me how to get to construction site
where I could take the KJ off road, so to speak. It was basically a future site
that had been cleared a while back, but it did have some drainage ruts a couple of dirt mounds and the ground was saturated from recent rains. I put the part
time 4x4 system in 4wd high and off we went. We immediately hit some soft
mud (left about 3 to 4 inch ruts) which we plooded right through with no problem
Next we came to the ruts which we also crossed with no problem. We then proceeded to just drive around the site for a while. After I took the Liberty back
to the dealer and left I took my XJ to the same site to see how they compared.
Of course neither vehicle had any problem, the only difference was the fact that
Liberty had less head jerk when driving the ruts. I realize this is in no way a real off-road test, but it was still cool that he let me do this. We did stop at a
quarter car wash and hosed it off before we went back. My overall impression
is that it is a fine addition to the Jeep line. It is so much more modern the the
XJ, I liked the tailgate and the flip up glass along with the larger rear door (a lot eaiser to get in and out of the back seat which is a split fold down unit). The
big question is would I trade my XJ in to get a KJ. NO ! I would not. After
spending about an hour with this vehicle I still think that these two vehicles are
different as night and day and I stiill believe theres a place in the Jeep lineup
for the Cherokee. I still want to see what the KJ can really do off-road with its
IFS. I think it going to kick the shit out of the Escape, Sportage, Highlander,
Freelander and even the X-Terra. LONG LIVE THE CHEROKEE !!!!!!!

Jerry C. I was monkying around on the other post. But I do need some question answered.

#1. When would I use the 4x4LO and the 4x4HI. The escape has a 4x4HI, but no LO. I only plan to be camping and riding up dirt roads and across little streams. If the only reason I would need a LO is to climb rocks and destroy my car, then no thanks.

#2. Why do people keep whining about needing a solid front axle???

#3. If I buy a liberty, how can I keep your friends from making fun of me :(.

Joe "is really a nice guy" Nos

Hey "Joe Nos" (maybe he meant, "Joe Blows") let me clue you into alittle some thing about the Ford Escape, well to put it lightly it sucks. Whether you want to get into the offroading game or not it is just a everybody has one cute ute. Just because it has "rugged" plastic body panels doesn't mean its ready to hit those trails. Unless those trails are dry gravel roads maybe.

As for Jeep owners and Jeep fanatics. The only reason we get so feverish over this whole KJ/XJ/TJ thing is because we love and admire what we drive. If we didn't we wouldn't be wasting our time posting on this board or even looking at it. Tell how many "Mike's Free Escape News" sites you've seen. Ford has a even smaller following of offroaders than Jeep has. You know why because they did the same thing Jeep is doing to us (V-6, IFS, Parts Bin Junk) 10-25 years ago. They killed their ultimate offroader, the first bronco, and thier last formadable one was the first generation explorer. So take you escape because as useless as the comments on this board seem i would take the KJ/XJ arguement anyday over any talk about Escapes.

By the way maybe Babs and Jerry C. should just run away with each other, but not to a Jeep Jamboree from what I understand. What a weirdo.

Solid Axle Forever...
Griff

P.S. Seen that new 8inch Skyjacker (i think) lift for the XJ... NICE. I would be glad to drive up on the pansy "retro" hood of a KJ anyday with that on a XJ.

Yo Jerry!
You ok man? I was sure entertained by your
last email, but I'm not sure "Babs" would share
your misogynist, homophobic rant!

right on Babs, I'm right behind you!! You said it all! The KJ Liberty is just another example of everyone knocking it before they try it. They're just SO SURE that it's a piece of junk, even though they've never driven it!!! Amazing how these "experts" know everything, isn't it? I think the tractor engine part meant that the 4.0 (and the 2.5, for that matter) , is noisy and unrefined compared to newer powerplants. Duh, Malcolm XJ, that's a no-brainer! Babs , prepare to be insulted, because you've defamed their sacred ol Cherokee. you could kidnap their women, loot and pillage their homes, but, by golly don't talk about their outdated Jeeps!! Ha! Ha! Some of the "experts" comments are starting to disturb me; they're wishing I wore mascara and eyeliner and bullshit like that. I think they're just closet queers, so I won't be going on any Jeep Jamborees anytime soon because they might be there with their ugly lard-ass- hetero-cover-for--them wives!! hahahahahah!! Anyway, you're right on the money, Babs. There is some sense out there, after all !

Babs, you're a DC office worker. No mystery here.

Exactly what are you talking about when you say the XJ "has no structure"? I'm also puzzled by the "tractor engine" comment. The XJ is noisy, but I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say the 4.0L has been emasculated. Are you referring to torque, horsepower? It's actually a nice little powerplant that meets it's target. Actually, the company you work for has decided to continue the 4.0L for at least a couple more years.

And another thing, before you call others "yoddlers", you might try to be less of a yahoo. You're doing wonders for DC's image.

I now have 5600 miles on my Lberty. How, will you say? Well that's none of your Biz....
I have owned and lease CJs,YJs, and 3, count 'em 3 XJs. This vehicle (KJ) is the best of them all. No contest.

Jeep is pushing the KJs to the Jeep Jamborees this summer. You'll see for yourself.

By the way: The XJ is noisy, has no structure, is tough to get in and out of, and has a NOISY tractor engine. That 4.0L has been emasculated o pass federal emission levels.

Drop your banjos and put back your dentures in, guys... This KJ will save the brand, and Kill those cute-utes.

The XJ's competitions was the cute utes and the X-Terra, never the Defender90 like you seem to think. And the KJ is better suited to best those competitors. And yes, it did go though the Rubicon, and No, 99% of you yoddlers will never go.

there's a Liberty at the local dealership already. they had it sitting next to a Durango, and it's easy to see the resemblance in the upper cabin and window shape to the Dodge. should have made this Dodge's answer to the
V and RAV and Escape. someone take a pic of the Liberty and graft a Dodge-looking front end on it already...

Remember Bill C. got into trouble trying to please everybody!
They should have developed the KJ as an AWD to allow DCX to capture both markets, ala the Land Rover Freeloader..., and continued the XJ.
Hell,the XJ still enjoys the fact that it was still selling like hotcakes until the economy put a damper on ALL vehicle sales.
It was still moving 400 units a day from the factory until 2 weeks ago - I haven't talked to the source since then - and production was behind at that time because demand was averaging 500 a day.
DCX will learn business one of these days....if they aren't forced into a firesale first. They now have all of their proverbial eggs in one proverbial basket. That's a recipe for disaster.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

What would happen if Jeep would cater only to the rock crawling market? Sales would go south and soon there might not be a jeep as we know it. I'm fairly impressed with DC's drive to remember what the Jeep heritage is all about, while still trying to be innovative.

I am still waiting to see a Liberty in person. I am a fan of the XJ and always
will be. The divide that exist between the pro Liberty forces and the anti Liberty
forces continues to grow. While I do not like the looks of the Liberty as much as my '99 Sport, I can't honestly say that I hate it. Its not unusual for me to
hate the styling of a new vehicle when it first appears but, after a while it grows
on me. So I guess what I am saying is that going by that standard the Liberty
is ahead of the game. Unlike most Jeep owners I do take my XJ off road, but
I do not do what would be considered hard core off roading. To be perfectly
honest with you, from what I have heard the Liberty could probably handle most
of what I would throw at it. Since I purchased my XJ I have added skid plates,
tow hooks, roof mounted spare tire rack and roof and bumper mounted lights.
In the future I plan on adding rock rails, lockers and a two or four inch lift. My
point is that I will built my Cherokee to meet my needs. Looking two or three
years down the road I imagine that everything that I just mentioned doing to
my Jeep will be possible on the Liberty. I am very concerned about the IFS on
the Liberty. In the MSN review they mention the 10 inchs of ground clearance
but, they fail to mention that the 10 inchs only exist when the vehicle is standing still on a flat surface. I am not against change, but change without
progress is a waste and usually a mistake. I still for the life of me can not see
why DC can not continue to produce the Cherokee for a few more years. They
should continue to build at least one model similar to the Casablanca concept
of a few years ago. I seen that concept at a Jeep 101 last summer and that
Cherokee would be just rugged enough to appeal to us XJ fans for a few more
years. LONG LIVE THE cHEROKEE !

I hate to bring this up....but I told the naysayers here that it was going to come to this.

and FWIW, when Chrysler released the TJ with a Dana 44 and coils....that was the moment we (Jeep Core) thought that they'd heard our request for an articulating Jeep from the factory...

www.widowmakeronline.homestead.com/liberty.html

I just put Rancho shocks in my CJ7, and it
now is as smooth as my coil sprung XJ. Coil
springs or not, the TJ is still no CJ!!! Like
comparing the Cherokee and the Liberty!!!
Bring back the CJ7's body!!! Make that the next
generation wrangler!!!

Perhaps I'd feel a little more confident about the Liberty's chance for success if articles such as this one didn't compare it to the Tracker and Escape -- two wagons you never see on the road -- instead of the vastly more popular, and capable, Blazer and Explorer.

RELEASE THE HOUNDS! ;)

does any know how much time i have left to buy a new Cherokee. i dont want to have to settle for a liberty (dont like the way it looks).

Hey "Whooo"- I tried to answer your question about the high beams ,and you have told me to screw myself because of an Earnhardt comment I made in an EARLIER post that was UNRELATED? Thankful little bugger , aren't you? I guess you won't be back anyway, now that your baffling high beam question has been solved, huh? Well, I really don't give a damn about anyone who drives on an oval track and runs other off of it for repeated laps at 200 mph while being watched by the scourge of humanity. I know it takes skill to race NASCAR cars, and I'm sorry for Earnhardt Junior(his son),but off-road is more my cup-o-tea , as I'm sure it is for most others on this site. The question I posed in that post was " why do we look up to these people?" I don't look up to any " atlete" or actor, or anyone else for that matter! Why? Not because I think I'm the all that and then some--it's because I actually have an adult mentality, and I don't need my little role models anymore. And I didn't KNOW him, besides? So why would someone fight a family member(or anyone else) over a race car driver? Cause they're a WHITE-TRASH REDNECK!! Ol #3, coming in last on the dirt nap lap!! Wha ha ha !!
Back to the Jeeps: I was quoted a price (just for my info, I'm in debts up to my ass) on a Liberty Limited-- white, six, auto,damn near totally loaded, ---$25, 478. Your price Comparisons? Your Comments?

Hey Utah.... perhaps some day you too can enjoy all the the benefits of literacy. And thanks I will enjoy my Liberty

I found the high beams!!! Thanks everyone,
except for you Jerry, screw you for insulting
Dale Earnhardt!

hey....just cause I play the banjo, and married my sister, does not make me a hick!!!
Patrick....enjoy your new Liberty! I am sure "your" Winnie the Pooh sunshade will great on it too!

oh yea...as for the high beams on a CJ-7. I had a 78 CJ and the high beams were switched by a foot switch located on the floor, on the top left side.

i just dont understand why JEEP would want to discontinue the Cherokee, it was such a cool ride. why didnt they just make IFS an option on it that way the hardcore offroaders and these IFS loving wussies can both be happy.

Joe: Low range is not only useful for multiply gear power, it is good for helping to regulate vehicle speed as well, especially down steep hills. granted, we're talking about 7 mph or so, but sitiuations that don't look like much can quickly get hairy and possibly dangerous, i.e. Coming over an steep hill with shale or gravelbed on the other side. all of my biases against mere all-wheel drive aside , Joe, if I were you, I'd still consider something with low-range. You'll thank yourself later, trust me. Exremely muddy, slick and deep siutations demand it. Even driving out of a deep ditch is made easier when you can pop it in 4-Lo.

As for the solid axle, I'm not on most of these guys' side. While effective it's very crude and is ONLY in rock crwling, something I do very little of compared to other mediums. I agree that I would not take a new vehicle into the canyons to rockcrawal simply becaue of the investment you have in it. IFS( independant front suspension) is considered a weakness for extreme hard-core four wheeling at speed, but it has evolved and makes for better control of the frontend overall. It is simply better. As as I've said, if IFS sucks, why is it on the AM General HUMVEE? The Liberty is simply a step in the right direction. Multi-link IFS will continue to the point where it will be active and indepedant, front and rear. A solid axle is better for carrying very heavy loads over time simply by design, but for your ( and 90% of everyone else's needs, it'll be fine) I hope you'll reconsider. As for me being uncivil, I apologize, but I was attacked by these "friends" of mine from the moment I began posting my ideas. It's a heated topic , to say the least. Good luck with your vehicle choice.

As to the post titled" what about me"- when your Jeep was built, it was required by DOT regulations to have high beams. I'm taking a guess, because I, for the life of me, cannot remember where it was on my CJ, but it may be on the floor-- in other words, feel to the left floorboard with your foot. Its a little button about the size of a lighter end, and it's foot operated I know some of them tended to get jammed ( some 70's models). I'm pretty sure they weren't stalk-mounted, but I may be wrong.

What about my question??? Does the 1980
CJ7 have high beams??? If so... where???

somebody talk to me what you know about the ARB Old Man Emu suspension for the XJ. I need some opinions if anyone is familiar. Thanks

Regarding your respective comments:

Rich- C'mon-let's not be politcally correct. (Jeez, couldn't you just use the layman's terms?) 1. The comment I made about their wives is NOT directed against women ( or a specific gender)in general--you used the term misogynist. That's not what it means. 2. Homophobic-- I am not afraid of homosexuals in general. That's what the term would mean, but it's not really an accurate phrase.The homoseual community came up with that phrase. I abhor homosexuality behavior and find it supremely immoral and disgusting.



Joe- For someone who's NEVER BEEN "OFF_ROADING", I cannot believe you've said some of the things you said! I thought you were joking when you asked questions about low range in amother post , but apparently, you are serious. You are specifically the type that others on this board have desribed as having no brand loyalty or caring about the deep technical facts of the Jeep , as well as its details, including, but certainly not limited to: suspension, unibody stiffness, engine power, options, technical numbers, i.e. low range ratio, rearend ration, final drive ratio, axle size, modifications, etc. You just want you first "SUV", right? (I hate that acronym).There's nothing wrong with being new to something, of course, but I sure as hell wouldn't go into a quantum physics discussion and start telling everyone who wrong they were. I curse some of these people, but only when I am insulted, not just because of their opinions. I've been into Jeeps before I hit puberty(Yes, I know I just set myself up for an insult there) , and I do know a thing or two, but I certainly could learn something from a lot of people on here , I'm sure. So the Escape it is , huh? Damn shame.

Griff- I agree with you about the first generation Explorer. They were tough but comfortable to live with every day. Another (minor) reason that production of the original 66-77 Bronco discontinued is because the frames are quite prone to rust near suspension points (just like the International Scout). A friend of mine has four and he confirms this.

Ok after reading hundreds of post on the Jeep Liberty, I have decided not to buy it after all. I hope DC reads this post.

I have never been off roading, but I wanted to get started and how better to start, but with the newest 4x4 out on the market. But after reading hundreds of post I have come to this conclusion about Jeep Owners. THEY ARE IDIOTS. These idiots claim to love Jeeps, but want to run them bankrupt. By flaming prospective buyers and steering prospective buyer into buying a Japanese made SUV. I'm going to buy the Ford Escape. It's around 500 pounds lighter and gets better gas mileage (no need for premium gas). I don't want to go offroading anymore for fear of running into one of those RED NECK Hillbilly jeepsters :(.

Hold me I'm scared,
Joe "Always Knows" Nos

The Cherokee is/was unique. That is why it will continue to sell until every last 2001 built is sold.

The Liberty will compete with the: Kia Sportage, Ford Escape, Mazda Tribute, Toyota RAV-4 and Highlander, Suzuki Vitara, Grand Vitara, and the New X-7 (or whatever that thing is), Chevy Trackers, Hyundi Santa-Fe, Subaru Foresters and Outbacks, and God knows how many others I am forgetting.

I don't care what the DC people say. They want a piece of that action and they are trying to get thier cake and eat it too, buy designing a vehicle that tries to appeal to traditional Jeep buyers, and the new Cute-Ute purchaser.

I see this as an attempt by DC to do to much with too little, and agree with all the posters to this site who think that Jeep should have sold both the Cherokee and Liberty side by side, for a couple of years.

Who knows....they might have found that both would hit thier target markets, and sell well. Or if one did not....then they would not have all of thier eggs in one basket, as a previous poster has stated.

As for styling....Cherokee still looks great despite what some people say when comparing it's look to the Liberty. Ever notice how 95 Pathfinders look dated now compared to 2001's for example. Really....how many vehicles on the road since the early 80's look as modern and hip today, as they did when they first came out?

People are always telling me they like the look of my 2000 Cherokee Sport (black). It's like a Black Tuxedo....fashion styles come and go...but the tuxedo is always contemporary, and stylish and completely functional.

I doubt if the Liberty's styling can maintain any vitality for 5 years...let alone 18.

It will be very interesting to see where the dust settles on this issue.

For now, I will continue to enjoy my 2000 Cherokee sport. It's great to own and drive such a classic, capable, and proven vehicle!

Did anyone catch the article in Car-truck . com
...... it seems the 2003 wrangler could possibly
be a wussified Liberty looking 2 door... with an
even more squished, un-Jeep like front end! It
appears the final nail is about to be put in the
Jeep coffin. At least I have the XJ and CJ7.
Speaking of CJ7's ....I can't find the high
beams on mine... did the 1980 CJ7 have high
beams? & yes I know how dumb this
sounds....... but I can't find em!

I sort of agree about the front end..but I wouldn't trade the coil springs for my old
cj and wrangler rides!

TJ!!! The TJ!!!! Listen... since Jeep has opened
this can of worms, lets not hide the fact that
the CJ7 was the last "real Jeep" ever made!!!
(Aside from the XJ) .....the TJ is for college
chicks, screw coil springs and that squished
looking front grill!!!! Bring back the CJ7!!!!!!! : )

Gee, I was going to buy a Kia Sportage so I can go buy groceries, but this Jeep Liberty seems sooo cute! With its 4" down-travel-range on its independent front suspension, I can even make it over those darned 4" potholes on the street! What's next - the Jeep Geo? JUST DON'T TOUCH THE TJ !!! SOLID AXLES FOREVER!!!!