To clarify Mike #2...I only own a YJ and ZJ. I don't have an XJ yet. Plan on getting one soon...but with the Grand Wagoneer I want..well there ARE limits on what I can squeeze in the driveway...

As a firefighter who has witnessed a number of tragic MV incidents, thank you Jeep for engineering the high safety rating. Now just give us the same diesel goodies you provide to the Europeans -- e.g. six speed manual with diesel in the Liberty and Wrangler. We too would like to benefit from good mileage, performance, and a long-lived motor.

Jon, now thats funny :-)

The POCONOS? WHY for gods sake....Who came up with this brilliant idea.....VA was a terrific place to most on east coast and lets forget about those in the middle unless ya want to drive days to get there.....come on DCX a little more centrally located for ALL AMERICANS........and a few illegals.........

Our family doesn't live in a bubble. We enjoy life fully and don't worry about such trivial matters. Life is Too Short to worry about what's around the next bend. Jeep owners USED to be renegades and trailblazers..mostly WWII vets-and after living in "that generation" took life by the "cajones" and forged on full speed not thinking about safety zealotry and other phobic vices most Jeep owners exhibit today.

Hey, O.O.J---

Would your XJ or ZJ get a 5-star crash rating, back in the day, or for that matter, under today's current standards?

That is good news for DCX and JEEP. I hate to say it, but no matter how safe a JEEP is, whenever they show a person on T.V. who is maimed or permenantly disabled in a JEEP accident, it is a strike against JEEP, even if the driver, or the person who hit the JEEP was driving reclessly.

Look at all of the fallout from the Ford Explorer debacle---It nearly bankrupted a tire company, forced the resignation of the Ford CEO, and a complete redesign of the Explorer.

I have been noticing the 60-70's Toyota Land Cruisers lately, and for that matter, late 90's Defender 90's, and can't help but to hope that the TK gets up-sized (a little) here and there...Just enough without losing the Jeep charm.

Good news about Camp Jeep.
You have to wonder about the timing of their announcement and if someone really does read these postings. Here we were wondering and expecting the worst that there would be no Camp Jeep this year and then the same day they finally give everyone the thumbs up that there will be one.
If your listening Jeep Gods, We want the Rescue( price it under $30,000) and the Gladiator(start it under $20,000).

DCX is a moron. They are hurting their fan base more then anything by taking camp jeep away from somewhere centrally located. If you look at stats, when it was in Missouri, they had the largest turn-outs of all time 13,000 jeepers. Ever since then, the turn-out has declined rapidly.....wake up DCX ... Move the thing back to the middle of the US where more Jeepers can meet and not everyone is left out like in the past 2 years!

If I remember extrication training correctly, I recall something about kinetic energy increasing by the square of the velocity. So, a head-on collision at 70 is going to be quite devastating relative to a 35 mph collision, not only from the perspective of impact, but because the individuals in the vehicle are still traveling forward into the restraints after the vehicle has come to its rather abrupt stop. When speeds are 35 MPH and above, firefighter protocals typcially assume major trauma. Even in much slower collisions, abrasions and contusions resulting from just the restraint systems are not trivial. But, in general we drive faster than we did 20 years ago, there are alot more of us, and this dictates that we adapt. There's nothing wrong with safety and protection, for firefighters it's routine. Relative to the XJ; it was a remarkably well designed vehicle and I think we forget that it actually did quite well in crash tests. Indeed, the XJ was used extensively by public service organizations.

The XJ is a very safe vehicle for rear seat passengers. It received a 5-star side impact rating for rear seat passengers. However, it only received a 3-star rating for front passengers. I drive an XJ and love the vehicle. However, if I had a family I would be more comfortable transporting them in a Grand Cherokee that has five-star ratings all around.

OnlyOneJeep, Jeep has to build up a vehicle lineup that can suit both kinds of Jeep owners. In fact many Jeep owners fall under both categories because they just want rugged off-road fun for themselves but want something more safe and sound and capable of handling slippery roads for their family.

I have a family and I do care about crash ratings.

O.O.J.- I have to disagree...JEEP and DCX can satisfy both worlds---Saftey and Adventure minded folks...We are not talking Rocket Science here.

Heck, the Bricklyn of the 60's had reinforced doors that could withstand today's side impact standards, the airbag was really invented in the 70's---this technology is not new, and I am sure that DCX is not going to put unproven technology into a product.

Technologies like Dynamic Stability Control, and BOSE Sound Suspension will make roll-overs a thing of the past, so much so that if a 'Zuki Sami' were equipped with this technology, Ralph Nader would go out and buy one. And as far as impact protection, Jeep owners can still have it both ways.

I drove my parents Saturn VUE, and it's grrrrreat!!! It's no off-roader,it's no rock crawler, but boy can that thing move.

Nobody can argue with the greenies claim that SUV's spend 90% of their time on-road. I think JEEP is right to improve on-road performance, because, let's face it, there's only one way to crawl over a rock, or traverse a ditch, or ford a stream. I don't think any amount of technology can make off-roading happen any better, so concentrate on the road manners of a vehicle, and ultimately, DCX customers will have the best of both worlds.

I don't see the difference in IFS performance off-road. AEV produces the Cherokee Mojave, and that thing looks like it could run circles around O.O.J's XJ, IFS and all. It may not be the SAME as straight axles, but it is the eqivalent, The TJ performs differently off road than the YJ, and in some off-road circles, leaf springs are the preferred suspension system, so what gives with whining about new technology?

One way to make IFS perform like a straight axle is to use a tranverse leaf spring, Land Rover uses transverse airbags inside of the springs.

I don't think anyone would complain if someone dropped a new Land Rover out of the sky in their driveway.

Camp Jeep 2005: Good news! I'm glad it's being held, and my husband is hoping for a cooler climate. If anyone has more specific site info, please share...

Safety ratings: It looks like DCX is exactly trying to satisfy the two groups of Jeep owners on the board. My 97 TJ is paid for, and right now it's my daily driver and offroader. If I have little Jeepers, I'll get the Grand Cherokee in addition, make that the daily driver and mod the TJ. It beats the shame of a minivan!

I don't think that anyone "knocked the XJ." The people who made a comment about it's safety all seem to be XJ owners who were merely making an observation.

Whomever knocked the XJ's safety rating needs to do some more research.

Five star rating for rear-seat passengers, slightly less for front-seat passenger, and three star for driver. It's monocoque design is hell for collision repair but provided it safety. The XJ compares favorably to the Liberty, a design that came along almost two decades later.

You sissies can knock the XJ if it makes you feel better.
But I'd like to point out that it is (was) the only Jeep that
very nicely appealed to both the hardcore off-roader
and the more practical family man or woman. The 4-
door wrangler will be its spiritual successor.

Sorry but these crash tests not the end all be all of how to guage vehicle safety! What speed to they test at, 30 or 35MPH. What happens when you are traveling 70MPH on the Interstate and hit another car head on going 70MPH (combined speed of 140MPH). A 5 star crash rating at 35MPH will do nothing for you then.

As far as not allowing your children to ride in an XJ because it is unsafe, sorry, but that is just plain stupid and unfounded. The XJ has proved itself to be very safe in the real world.

[quote]The three preceeding posts exactly show why Jeep is in trouble. It is nearly impossible to produce a vehicle to attract the two types of Jeep Owners here on this great board. One Jeep; that is carefree and efficient and affordable- and the other Jeep; an appliance that can never falter or become a hazard. Sorry. I have enough of built in "dummy-proof" safety features in the home...I don't need another on the road or on the trail. Suppose no one rides horses anymore or skydives? The rollercoaster called life is only for those forward enough or strong enough to ride and NOT worry. That being said...The Jeep we know and love will ALWAYS take us there, with NO restraint![/quote]


Get yourself a dual sport motorcycle and knock off your girlish whine.

The three preceeding posts exactly show why Jeep is in trouble. It is nearly impossible to produce a vehicle to attract the two types of Jeep Owners here on this great board. One Jeep; that is carefree and efficient and affordable- and the other Jeep; an appliance that can never falter or become a hazard. Sorry. I have enough of built in "dummy-proof" safety features in the home...I don't need another on the road or on the trail. Suppose no one rides horses anymore or skydives? The rollercoaster called life is only for those forward enough or strong enough to ride and NOT worry. That being said...The Jeep we know and love will ALWAYS take us there, with NO restraint!

The XJ was killed partly because it couldn't meet impending side impact tests. This is one reason why I don't let my kids ride in my '99 XJ.
This is good news for DCX and makes me interested in the GC even more.

Jeep owners also werent the types of people who sat there and tried to impose their idea of what other Jeep owners should be like and criticise those Jeepers who value things like safety! They went out and enjoyed the wilderness and had fun with other Jeepers!

I could care less about crash ratings. The whole idea of driving is to avoid an accident to BEGIN with.....Most persons who have owned Jeeps for the past 40 years already are keen on this point. We already address our vehicles' obvious faults and adjust for them.

A little off the topic...

The following is from the press release regarding the debut of the export version of the Grand Cherokee. Might we see this engine in US Jeeps in the near future?

"The all-new 3.0-litre V-6
D engine is a “next-generation” power unit from the DaimlerChrysler Group producing class-leading levels of power and torque, with good fuel economy. With Bosch high-pressure fuel injection (2000+ bar), a variable geometry turbocharger and four valves per cylinder, the new engine meets Euro 4 emissions standards without a diesel particulate filter. Maximum power is 160 kW (218 hp DIN) and peak torque is 510 N•m (376 lb.-ft.) from just 1800 rpm.

For the diesel engine, a kick-down switch is now added to the accelerator pedal. This detent, reached before the full travel of the pedal, is intended to reduce transmission kick-downs during normal driving but still allow for full pedal travel when a quicker acceleration is wanted by the driver."

I wonder if the dates are correct? They say the weekend of the 12,13 & 14th(Fri,Sat & Sun).
In years past it has been on Thurs, Fri and Sat right?
Did someone get in a hurry to post that info on their web-site because we were all freaking out!

This is great safety news! I'm just waiting for the Dynamic Handling System to become available before purchasing the new GJC. I live in metropolitan Philadelphia, so I plan on going to Camp Jeep in the Poconos in August! Is this good timing or what?