What I find hilarious about all this fuss over the liberty is that no one is even really looking at other vehicles's handling or crash characteristics.

Ex: Over 4 different crash tests conducted by the IIHS, the Liberty sustained $5,667 in damages. Compared to a full-size 2001 Dodge Ram, which suffered $8,438 in damages, the Liberty is a lot more appealing. A 2002 Ford Explorer's damages were only $200 cheaper than the Liberty's!

Hey Kia Lovers!!! btw, the Sportage suffered $7,601 in all four tests. For that kind of scratch, you might as well go buy a new one (I mean they cost that much new anyway, right?)

The test which measured damages suffered from a rear collision into a flat barrier showed this:
Kia Sportage: $2,744
Mistubishi Montero: $2,559
Rav4: $2,713
Jeep LIberty: $1,719

Just to name a few. How come the Liberty is making news for sustaining rear end damage? I'd be much more concerned if I was driving a Kia or one of those other Asian-produced SUVs. I mean $1000 MORE damage suffered by a KIA as compared to a Liberty? WOW!

So according to Utah:

In order to avoid an accident in front of you, if you are driving a Liberty, you have to swerve violently side to side... resulting in the rollover of your vehicle.

*I'd like to know if this test has been repeated and is an accurate representation of the Liberty's handling characteristics? Usually, a safe driver drives according to the conditions and leaves plenty of room between vehicles to avoid such an aggressive maneuver.

"Secondly....if a vehicle disentegrates at 5 mph...do you really believe it is going to protect your better at 40 or 50 mph."

*I'm pretty sure no vehicle "disentegrates" or it wouldn't be allowed on the road. The Liberty has a monumentally stiffer chassis than the Cherokee, so what happens when one of those gets rear ended... complete and utter destruction? I think not. The point is that the Liberty absorbs the impact and protects the occupants of the vehicle. The same thing will happen to ANY VEHICLE with a rear mounted spare. I've seen the same thing happen to 4-runners, RAV-4s, etc. The fact that the Liberty is singled out because of this characteristic is remarkable.

Insurance premiums are indeed tied to maintenance and repair costs... but how much does it cost to fix a Mercedes, Acura, or "Luxury" SUV that has suffered a rear end collision? Do you think their premiums are any less? Should a Liberty owner be concerned that their rates may be similar? Only if they're concerned about money.

"The Liberty is the only SUV that Autoweek has ever rolled in the same test that all SUV's they test are put through. So...your "if you want handling buy a Porsche" comment is stupid. "

*Just because results have not been duplicated does not mean that they will never happen. The autoweek test is hardly a valid scientific test. Again... have they been able to reproduce the same results over and over in a Liberty or has it only happened the one time? I think more evedence is required to make an accurate determination.

Where's the off road capability tests for all these SUV's anyway? I'd like to see the report that shows the damage and repair bill for a RAV4 that rips out its drivetrain due to it's 6.7" of ground clearance, or the KIA sportage with it's 7.9 (as opposed to a Liberty with 9.6").

As for the KIA sportage... I'm not even going to go there. At least that is the one thing Utah and I can agree on.

.....saw it.......

S - stupid
P - people
O - own,
R - regretably
T - this
A - Accident Prone
G - God Awfull
E - Excuse for an SUV

I told you the Liberty was a turkey and inferior to my Kia Sportage! Personally this board is getting sad, all the idiots team up on the people with real opinions, and now all we have is drival. Sean you questioned the Nissan guy because he owned a Jeep and wanted a Nissan, and then you say you drive Honda!!!! HAHA What a LOSER! I miss the smart people like Joe Nos, Xterra, and Griff. Now all we have are Honda drivers who say they like Liberties! HA KIA RULES Nissan, Jeep, Honda, and EVERYONE ELSE!!!

Sure, the Liberty rolled over in extreme conditions, but I don't think they were so extreme as to imply that someone would be a Jackass to find themselves in a similar situation.

First....what if you are moving a 40 mph and there is an accident in front of you. You have to swerve very quickly several times from side to side to avoid it. Do you want to find yourself on your roof?

Secondly....if a vehicle disentegrates at 5 mph...do you really believe it is going to protect your better at 40 or 50 mph.

Also, you may not care about the cost of repair to your Liberty, but the way that insurance companies calculate premiums is exactly based on cost of repair. So, you just might find yourself paying considerably more for your insurance coverage, even though you are accident free. I am assuming you are a Libery owner...So you should be concerned.

Bob:

I, too, love to check in at www.car-truck.com, and the only thing I can think of that would keep them down this long is massive server problems. They had mentioned several times that their server was acting flaky and even posted alternate e-mail addresses, as their server was not working at all for e-mail. As far as the Liberty roll-over is concerned, even if this is an "extreme" condition, as DC states, aren't all vehicles pushed beyond design limitations on a regular basis?

Let's hear if for the Liberty!! Not only does it roll-over in Autoweeks test drive....but the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety now rates it along side the new Explorer as the vehicles sustaining the most damages in it's bumper crash tests!! Woo hoo...a whopping $1,417 damage in its five-mile per hour bumper crash test!! Blame it on the spare tire mounted on the door that transmits the impact to the tailgate and rear window, shattering the glass!!! Now aren't you new Liberty owners thrilled!!! If you can avoid rolling over, and don't back into anything over 4 mph.....you surely will love your new revolutionary....leading edge....shape of things to come....welcome to the next century....don't you love your IFS....Liberty!

Get over yourselves!
I have a Jeep and love the thing. It handles better than any other SUV with equal off road talent, but I don't mistake it for a sportscar. Its handling at the limits is very different (read: terrible) against a decent European sedan... If i wanted a handling car I'd trade the Jeep on a BMW X5, except for the fact that I'd feel guilty about punting 2.2 useless tonnes of appaling fuel consumption around town (the world is running out of petroleum). All I'm trying to say is respect other peoples preferences - or would you prefer to go communist and have everyone driving the same thing?

First off, if you ignorant KIA loving IDIOTS could read you would know that i OWNED a Honda, past tense... if you are educated enough to understand that!

Second, that 1980 Honda that i once OWNED is still on the road running strong with 180,000Mi. on the odometer, where is your POS KIA going to be 21 YEARS from now, Jack ASS!

XTerra or XTerra S/C whatever you call your ignorant self these days, I am proud to say i owned a Honda, someday you'll wake up and realize that KIA really does suck and that you are supporting third world sweat shops, Jack ASS!

Honda is a name that has been dominant in Formula 1 racing for the past 30 years, what can KIA say... DUH, we won a few rally races the past few years...

Third, this is not a message board, this is a JEEP news site that allows people to post reactions to posted stories about JEEPS. If the IDIOTS would go away we could return to doing so instead of arguing about why KIA SUCKS so bad and listening to continued Liberty bashing. Get over it, Liberty is here to stay, it is a JEEP, and it is tougher than anything else in it's class.

Fourth, XTerra or XTerra S/C.... you said you were not going to post here anymore... make it so please, hiding under another name just exposes your immaturity...GO AWAY!!!!

I haven't seen any posts by Xterra? Have you?
....And you need to improve your reading
comprehension so you'll recognize when
someone is being sarcastic... you DUMBA$$!!!

Xterra You need to take a class in reading comprehension, I was referring to Joe nos & KIA worshiper not Myself You dumb ass,I thought You said You were not going to post on here any more? What no good Xterra web sites out there?

Oh Yes, it made it look very rugged that way.
Does anyone know why there is no option for
a Manual transmission for the V6 Liberty in the
build your own section of the Jeep site? Don't
tell me they are only offering a manual with the
4 cyl???

was the Liberty on it's roof when you passed it on the freeway?

I agree Kia boy, Sean M. is a hypocrite and
doesn't deserve to use the name Sean. Hey
Joe, I am glad your now calling yourself a
misguided bastard because you are a
misguided bastard. I passed a Black Liberty
Sport today on the freeway, you know it looked
pretty damn good. Also reading Car and Driver
, they say the Liberty in their opinion gives "A
head tossing ride on any surface" ...and it's
"Fine for folks who commute over the Rubicon,
but too rugged for everyone else" .....hmm.....
maybe there's hope for the Liberty after all..... it
really looked pretty good today when i say it.....

Kia suck & so do the Libertys. As for the rest of Us being idiots, Anyone who uses Kia & rules in the same sentence is definitely an idiot, Joe you are a poor misguided bastard do Yourself a favor & go to consumer review.com If you do you well find that your" awesome Kia " Your words not Mine is rated almost dead last in SUV'S So tell ME Who is the idiot now?

So I thought to myself....I wonder what www.epinions.com has to say about the KIA sportage?

Nice to see that people who own 2001 Kia Sportages have given it an average of 3 stars out of 5 rating....and a whopping 50% recommended approval rating.

So you like your Kia? Well, half of the owners agree with you. The rest don't and most of us here could care less about what you have to say.

As I have pointed out to you before...you really should be posting at the Kia website at www.pieceofshit.com

and one more comment that i forgot to post in reply to "Whatever",

The Liberty is the only SUV that Autoweek has ever rolled in the same test that all SUV's they test are put through. So...your "if you want handling buy a Porsche" comment is stupid.

"If you want an SUV that rolls over....buy a Liberty" would be a more appropriate comment.

Ummmmmm..... Any jackass that drives an SUV at 40+ mph through that course deserves to roll over. Last time I checked, the Liberty was an SUV, not a sports car. If you're concerned about handling, go buy a porsche.

As far as crash statistics go.... todays vehicles are designed to absorb impact, not deflect it. Worried about repairs? Here's an idea - DONT HIT ANYTHING! If you're worried about other people hitting you, hey that's what insurance is for. I could care less if it cost $5 or $5000 to fix. As long as I walk away from an accident, that's all that matters.

OFF TOPIC...

Anybody here have any idea what happened to this
web site? It's been down for over a week.

Alone with this site, it's always been a great
source of Jeep info. I hate to see it disappear.

http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz.htm

B

It's about time someone rolled a Liberty. The only thing that surprises me is
the fact that it took this long to happen. The first time I saw a Liberty in person
the first thought that crossed my mind, was that this things going to roll alot
eaiser than my Cherokee. Anytime you increase the height without increasing
the wheelbase you are increasing the risk.

It's about time someone rolled a Liberty. The only thing that surprises me is
the fact that it took this long to happen. The first time I saw a Liberty in person
the first thought that crossed my mind, was that this things going to roll alot
eaiser than my Cherokee. Anytime you increase the height without increasing
the wheelbase you are increasing the risk.

The really sad thing is that because of these reports and the fact that it costs so much to fix these supposedly safer, better designed, and better constructed vehicles everyones insurance costs will go up to cover the extra damage caused by bad designs and shoddy materials.

Just a little design/engineering tip for the automotive engineers everywhere... REAL BUMPERS ARE A GOOD IDEA! especially on a 4x4! Not the plastic covered tin they put on cars and even TRUCKS these days.

Honda had the right ided back in the 80's, solid bumpers mounted to little shock absorbers. The shocks absorb the impact of a 5 MPH bump (can't even really call 5 MPH a crash!), the bumper was designed to be able to travel without hitting the body, and viola! NO DAMAGE.

Not that i did it all the time but i used to be able to run into walls, posts, etc. on purpose in my 1980 Honda Accord just because i could! Gets the attention of your passengers too. Try this is a "BUILT FORD TOUGH" Explorer. HA!

I gotta tella ya, reading some of your comments, I think we are being just a bit too fervent about a vehicle. Everyone has different tastes and financial responsibilities. And the last time I checked, this is a FREE country.

So stop knocking eachother and accept any/all test results with a grain of salt. Then go out and make a mature purchasing decision by yourself.

here is my comment: It's a piece of crap from the beginning. This is what happens when you try to please the critics who actually want to buy a car anyway. This thing looked top heavy from the start. I guess that is the way DC wants it though: sacrificing safety for headroom.