Liberty's showed up on the dealer lots about a month ago, here in Ontario, Canada. So far, I have seen one on the road. I can't really comment on how they are selling, but I do see them on the dealer lots more than on the roads and highways.

As for the styling.....even the women I know think that it looks kind of goofy. I still don't know why they made it look so cute. Jeeps always had a look that mixed style with function. This cute, toy-like styling of the Liberty seems out of sorts with what people expect from Jeep.

Curiously, sales figures here in Canada for June have SUV'S and Truck sales down 6%, and import cars up about the same. Maybe Jeep has jumped into the Cute-Ute market too late as trends could be shifting due to more expesive fuel, and the economic down-turn. Plus, let's face it....the cute-ute segment is over-saturated with choices from every manufacturer.

Seems to me that Jeep should have stayed with what was working for them....building Jeeps....not cars that pretend to be Jeeps.

Utah.

here is my comment

Prior comment-typical comment from a dealer-by the way Liberty isn't selling worth shit in mich-in fact the same 2 have been on one lot for about 4 weeks, and another salesman said that they sold a little at the start, but now their just sitting-go figure. We need real 4x's in mich-like the XJ.

here is my comment: I sell Jeeps as well as own them. In particular the 1998 Cherokee Classic and the 2000 Wrangler Sport. I've been around, driven and even worked on jeeps since 1972. Now, about the Liberty. I was very apprehensive about the new model since the Cherokee has such a loyal repeat customer following,Including myself. I read a lot of literature from training and I was still apprehensive about it's looks, size and comfort. When we recieved the first Liberty in our store (AL PACKER JEEP in BAltimore) Everyone in the sales department took it out for a drive, we dissected it if you will. I was surprised by the misleading design, it looks small until you put it next to the other vehicles. It does require a little eye adjustment from the traditional Jeeps and it grows on you with time. Now that we have been receiving more of them,it seems we can't keep them on the lot. As soon as they arrive, they go out within the week. In fact I've tried to get my wife to come test drive one with leather, but no sooner that it's here, poof it's gone. She still has no idea what they drive like. I introduce it as this: The Liberty offers you the versitility of the wrangler, the utilityness of the Cherokee and the ride of the Grand Cherokee. The best of all three models, this helps created the overall picture of the vehicles capabilities and comfort. I now like the vehicle, that I may purchase one soon. My stepfather is flying in from Florida to buy one himself. I don't recommend driving it with the windows down and in the highway, this is very noisy.

Sincerely,
Tico Carreras

-----Original Message-----
From: Obi-Wan [mailto:bvh@inetnebr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 11:35 AM
To: jeepoffroad@jeepwire.com; swbjeep@stork.inebraska.com;
justjeeps@jedi.com; ijeep@juno.com; chenry@d-90.com
Subject: [JJ] Liberty sighting


Well, I saw my first Jeep Liberty up close this morning out in the
parking garage. At first glance from the front, it reminds me of a
VW Beetle with its bubbly, front clip and its big, bug-eye headlights.
Looks quite comfy inside.

The undercarriage is a joke, though. The front lower A-arms are
definitely quite beefy, but I can't see you getting much travel.
The axle section that connects the solid upper tube to the knuckles
seems way to short to allow significant wheel travel in the front.
I'd think that any lift kit would really have to redesign the entire
axle (or at least shorten the tubes to move the hinge point inward)
in order to do much good.

The connecting arms for the rear axle appear sufficiently strong
and long, but they'd need to be replaced with something using Johnny
joints in order to get much axle articulation. It's no surprise
that this thing doesn't flex worth crap off road (as demonstrated
in that article in 4W&OR a while back).

The muffler hangs _way_ down in harms way. It & the rear driveshaft
are the lowest points on that area of the vehicle. A skid plate would
be in order if you planned to take that thing off road. It has about
as much ground clearance under the frame as most other new, bone stock
Jeeps.

The wheel wells are also quite small. They look OK for the stock
235/70R16 tires (29x9.25"), and probably up to 30x9.50's, but you'd
have to do severe trimming to go any larger. The front of the front
fender appears to be the first place you'd rub.

All in all, it looks like it will do a good job of what it was designed
for (carrying groceries around town), but it is a pitiful disgrace to
the Jeep name.

-- Obi-Wan
'95.5 YJ, '77 Wag

Yes much better thanks! Now all we need
some news on the ugly KJ lookin Wrangler
that cartruck .com mentioned was seen on the
streets of Detroit a few months back.!

How is that Sean? Happy now

Griff, i wasn't saying get rid of either the 231 or 242 T'case i was saying get New Venture to redesign the rear output shaft. This is the root of all vibrations in XJ's and TJ's for years and the reason i had to spend $600 on a brand new XJ! Both of the cases are pretty much bullet proof, unless compared to an Atlas. My point was that with all this "redesign" and "testing" DC says they have done you think they would notice vibratons right off the bat. It's not rocket science that the output shaft/drive shaft is the cause! This just leads me to beleive they really didn't test as much as they said, or they have noticed the vibrations.

As far as the NV242 being used in the Hummers here is the scoop on that, they are not your standard NV242... here's the specs. from NewVentureGear.com

Model / Max. Cap. Torque / Weight / Vehicle Weight

NV242 1486 86 5500

NV242HD 2028 90 6400

NV242HDAMG 2340 90 11500

The NV242AMG is the one used in the Hummer. As you can see the NV242 is Jeeps or the NV242HD is nothing near the strength of the one used in the Hummer, but still strong enough for the weight of a TJ, XJ, or KJ.

Sorry '99 XJ that is

Hey Sean, please choose another name,
people will think your me! I'm the real Sean!!!!
I'm the real Sean!!!!

"The Mini (including the Cooper S) was a novelty car" Thanks Malcolm for putting in perspective your limited knowledge of antiquated vehicles. You obviously no very little about the purpose of the Mini so should I expect any more on the Jeep topic? As far as the Liberty is concerned consider this a demonstration that Jeep is paying closer attention to what the people who spend money on new vehicles want. Everyone knows that only a miniscule number of people will go off road much less make a passtime out of it, so given market studies, they may have hit a homerun, but a dying economy may be the worst enemy of any new car design. What they built was a roomier more substantial vehicle with very good off road capabilities that will be further improved with the aftermarket offerings. This may allow Jeep to take on a little more of the market and initiate further SUV trends. Or maybe you wuld prefer that honor go to the design team of the RAV4?

here is my comment

Hey Doug? They have tested Cherokee's ON the Rubicon and many other trails for years along with Comanchee's and there is never a report of damage transfer cases/trans such as the Liberty's. I can look up countless articles to support this whether it be Four Wheeler, Off Road etc etc. When the first Cherokee's came out these magazines ran the piss out of the XJ models only for it to get several awards etc, so questioning the cherokee's 'stock' capabilities, is only for people who 'non-Jeep people' and never owned more than just one style of Jeep. Looked at Four Wheeler's tests of the Liberty sure they say a good ride, but they also tell the facts such as the problems on the Rubicon. I've owned Jeeps for years and run them from 45 models all the way to 2002 models, and the best ones' that I have seen by far are the 42-45 GPW/MB'S and the Jeep Cherokee XJ.

By the way readers Jeep Liberty people- read Four Wheeler's latest on the Liberty-NO Off Road packages will be offered now because the engineers are having vibration problems in the driveshaft-glad I ordered my XJ with it.

I am almost 6'5" and fit fine in my cherokee. Thanks. It seems all the people that like this new Liberty have to trash on the XJ. I wonder why. Hmmm.

You guys are ill advised. The XJ is a squeaky, noisy, antiquated dinosaur. The liberty's onlt fault is its fuel consumption, about 17mpg.
I've owned both: Yes both. From a '87 XJ to a '97XJ to a '00 to a '02 Liberty. No contest. The Liberty rides better, has more passenger space, is quieter... Oh yeah, and it did pass the Rubicon test, which 99% of you guys will never see!!!

Stop living in the past: There is no market for the XJ, and the only reason it kept on selling since '99 is because of costly incentives.

Wether you want to believe this or not, the XJ had worse warranty that the X-Terra and even the crappy Land Rovers...

Gremlin parts were used for the AMC Concorde. The AMC Concorde was given a face lift and called the Eagle. The Eagle was Given a square box and was called the Cherokee...

Fact 1) The Liberty is the Chrysler Group's first vehicle to log as many development miles
Fact 2) The KJ can handle anything the XJ can.
Fact 3) Somebody wrote that a 6'3" he can sit comfortably in a XJ!!! Bull Sh^&.

Jeep originally designed the Liberty to be smaller than the Cherokee, as dealers (in the beginning) told DC that the Cherokee was too close to the Grand Cherokee in size. Now that the Jeep Cherokee XJ is on the way out, and the Liberty is on the way in, Jeep decided to stress the size of the vehicle, so that's why we are probably hearing so much conflicting info about the truck's true size. DC only shrunk it a little in back, made the front area bigger I am sure, but since it is a Cherokee replacement as far as the dealers are now concerned, well now they have decided that touting it as being as big or bigger than a Cherokee is a good thing - just remember, there is more than one way to measure the vehicle's true volume. I have heard a lot of the so-called increase in space is really coming from the increased headroom in the Liberty, not truely useful increases, in my opinion, such as cargo area length.

I too and am holding my breath in anticipation of the Dakar! I hope I don’t die waiting! It seems to me that Jeep could attack ALL the competition with the Dakar platform. Its rugged, Euro-Ute looking (Rover), and bigger than most mid-sized sport-utes.

I understand that Jeep probably has some safety issues and efficiency issues to deal with, but lets face it the hard core Jeep fans seem as though they would accept the Dakar as the XJ replacement. Now that Jeep has the Liberty, keep it, improve it to bring up Jeep’s average fuel economy numbers and it will still appeal to the cute-ute buyers. Maybe even make an AWD sedan or wagon with the Jeep badge (Eagle). (It worked before!) Put a bigger engine in the Dakar, make it “safer” for the safety weenies and get it on the market….SOON! Then modify the Grand’s chassis to compete in the FULLSIZE sport-ute market! Leave the Wrangler (TJ) ALONE!! What the heck, go ahead and add the Jeep ICON as well for the college and high school aged Jeepers!! But…. leave the Wrangler (TJ) ALONE!!

Instead of making a useless petition to keep the XJ in production maybe we should petition for a new vehicle (Dakar) that Jeep could be competitive with! FACE IT, JEEP IS NOT GOING TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH THE CURRENT MODEL XJ!!

Any takers??

As usual corporate America decides for us what we the enthusiast want. Hence
we now have the Liberty and the Cherokee joins the ranks of automotive
endangered species, So be it. In an attempt to change the subject somewhat
I just read one of the links on the Car and Truck Buzz page that seems to
indicate that Chrysler will focus mainly on light trucks in the future while the
cars will be primarily designed by Mitsu. It also states that they will expand the
Jeep line, but they were mum on how they plan to do this. Has anybody out
there heard any rumors about future Jeep models and if so what might they be.
I hope that they see the wisdom in producing the Dakar, but I now worry that
we are to close to the next Wrangler platform for that to happen. The same goes for a Scrambler model. I hope like hell its not that Varsity thing we saw a
couple of years ago. As always I am keeping my "99 XJ SPORT. Hey Mike, we
need some new Totally Free Jeep News.

Please no more comparisons between the Cherokee and the Liberty. The Liberty is not a replacement. Jeep decided to go in another direction. XJ owners that still look for that type of vehicle now just have to look somewhere else, but where? The early to mid-90's saw the end to most of these types of vehicles. Of course the KJ is a more modern vehicle than the XJ, it better be, its 17 years newer. It may be better for some, but for the people that love XJ's, it's not better, its newer. Jeep may have made a great car for the intended market, but they also left a lot of loyal Jeepers out to dry.

I don't know what people mean by saying that there's more legroom in Liberty vs. Cherokee? it's completely wrong!
Look at the specifications or test drive one - Liberty has LESS legroom than the Cherokee. I'm 6'3 and I owned Cherokees for many years, and was unpleasantly
surprised during the Liberty's test drive - it was obviously less leg room.
That 's one of the factors, why I finally purchased a Grand Cherokee with V8 instead.

And how well does a stock XJ handle the Rubicon? A damaged transfer case on a stock height vehicle while doing the rubicon, big suprise. You know that the after market firms will address any short comings for serious off roaders. Look around, most of the XJ's you see are grocery getters. None of this is a suprise. Hard core fans of an existing design will bad mouth the new replacement at every opportunity. The Liberty is a better vehicle today than the XJ's of 1984. Splitting my time with britsih cars, this same rhetoric has been displayed about the new Mini. Miles ahead of any Mini ever produced, hard core fans still can not accept the passing of their favorite car. The same can be expected with the Liberty but we'll see after 3-4 years how the new Jeep really pans out.

Your XJ was made affordable by all thoses sissies driving their XJ to the mall... If it wasn`t for the volume, your Jeep would have cost a multplier of its cost.

Oh, and by the way, XJ had a crummy record, tìl the end.

I am sure the Liberty drives nicely, but as far as it's appearance....I think it looks funny. I have seen it in four colors. Black, white, red and silver. Black seemed to be the best color for it's style and red was the worst. Of course, this is only my opinion. The salesman that I spoke to at the dealership said that once they had actual Liberty's on the lot, interest in the Cherokee increased. The Liberty looks much different in the flesh than it does in the pictures. It reminds me of the PT Cruiser....you either "Get it" or you "Don't get it".

I own both a '94 Wrangler and a "98 Grand Cherokee Laredo. When I first heard about the new Liberty and it's IFS I was skeptical. I had an opportunity to test drive the Liberty at the Jeep 101 in Denver. I was not impressed with the amount of room it provided inside. Being 6'2" I would not have been able to ride in the backseat. On the street course I could see why people would buy it. It had a relatively smooth on road ride. Of course, the people at Jeep have admitted to creating it for what they call the "soft roaders". People who buy an SUV and never take it off road. They also had a "beginners" off road course to show how it handled. This is where I stopped being impressed. Sure the IFS and the new steering made for a more comfortable ride. Unfortunately, there was much more steering wheel jerk then I am used to on my other vehicles. I would not trust the liberty enough to take it off road except for a dirt road with a few bumps. I felt that there was certainly not as much control and was not impressed with it. I want to know one thing: If you are never going to take it off road, why buy a Jeep? Let alone an SUV.

here is my comment I saw a news report on the last XJ to be produced, and it's going to a museum. I'm glad I got my Limited before they shut it all down, and I think I'll get a Don McClean CD of "American Pie" to blast on my historic stereo. I checked out the Liberty, looks very cool, but a lot taller than I expected, taller than my brother's Grand even. I'm not 6'3" like Yago, so I fit in my Cherokee just fine, thank you, and I can actually reach the roof rack with my squat body. I'll test drive the Liberty and expect to be impressed, but my next Jeep will likely be a Grand, unless they actually build the Dakar. So I'll toast a sentimental beer to my favorite little truck which will take me anywhere, and I'm betting I'll have lots of company.

We drove a few Liberty's and decided to order one. For the $25,000-$35,000 range the Liberty Limited is noticable more solid. We ordered everything but the side air bags, abs and CD changer. Yes we did get the offroad package, towing package and sunroof. It will be delivered in 5 weeks(3rd week of July). This vehicle is not offered as a serious offroad vehicle(those are supposed to be built) but it feels very solid, has less cheap plastic pieces, handles nice with excellent steering and has decent power(although the V8 lookslike it might fit). It's not a replacement for my CJ8 but it will do everything else nicely.

I just drove the Liberty and it's nice SUV. Being 6'3 it has a lot more driver room than the Cherokee. While the height, price, interior, and outside spare are nice, it just looks strange, as if it hit a wall head on (looks a little better with the faux plastic brush guard). Also, Jeep should have offered one of their full time four wheel drive systems, not just Command and Select. I know Select has full time but most cute-ute buyers rather not pull a lever. I have owned 3 Jeeps, currently a 97 Grand Cherokee. While I only do moderate offroading, my Jeep is perfect for towing, hauling, and deep snow. So one may think I am Jeeps ideal Liberty customer... never. It could be the greatest SUV made and I would not buy it simply because it looks like a Beetle with a spare time. Even my girlfriend criticized it for look too wimpy, and questioned why someone wouldn't rather buy a Forester like herself. Having said that, I am wondering if anyone knows if the 2002 Grand will be cosmetically updated (grill, interior, wheels) in the typically 4th year refresh?

I just read an article in this mornings newspaper. According to the article the
last Jeep Cherokees will roll of the Toledo assembly this line Friday June 22. Also
according to the article over three million XJ's have been produced since 1984.
I know its just a truck, but this news really has me bummed. America loses
another automotive legend.

As much as I agree with anthony gunsworth, there has not been much news in the world of Jeep, except for the Liberty. Jeep has been concentrating all of their efforts in this area, and with the downturn in sales, many future projects are being delayed or canceled. For example, Ford has delayed the major upgrade for the Ranger, and possibly canceled the Jeep Wrangler clone that was going to use the Ranger platform (see http://www.detnews.com/2001/autos/0106/04/a01-231754.htm).

The only other news going on is that many workers of the Jeep Toledo plant are losing their jobs. With the end of the Cherokee and reduction of the number of Wranglers Jeep is building, and since the Liberty is built in a highly automated process, about 1700 workers are now out of a job.

As far as what will be happening to the Wrangler, the 2002 model looks like no changes compared to the 2001. The major change is expected in 2005, when all vehicles will have to meet new safety standards. Many of the SUVs, including the Liberty, are offering side air bags. See (http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010607/bs/daimlerchrysler_safety_1.html). This is not being done because the automakers want to be nice guys. Auto manufactures are getting ready for the next major government mandated design change.

As mentioned in the article, the Wrangler will not be offering side air bags. As reported in www.carandtrucknews.com, there is the possibility that the Wrangler will cease to exist. To adapt the existing Wrangler with the side air bags looks close to impossible, and with all of the other safety requirements in the works, DC maybe forced to either end production of the Wrangler, or drastically change this vehicle so that it no longer resembles anything close to what it is today.

I know many will say that ‘Jeep will always offer the Wrangler, this is the Jeep symbol’. Unfortunately, Jeep is going away from what they were, and the Liberty is a prime example. I’m not against the Liberty, and I have driven one. This is a fine SUV, and if Jeep was enhancing their line to include this form of vehicle in the Jeep line up, I would be happy. Unfortunately, I think many of us see the end of the original Jeep concept. I think this is why you are seeing so many discussions on the pros/cons of this vehicle.

I know there will be some comments that DC/Jeep has to change so they can make a profit, or you have to keep up with the times. It seems to me that there is a market for the true off-road machines, albeit a niche. Sometimes a company needs to stay in the niche market. Subaru is a classic example. When all the major car companies abandoned station wagons, Subaru expanded in that area. To be successful does not always mean you have to follow everyone else.

I was among the first ones to test drive the Liberty in Chicago. My first impression was - disappointment: it's just another SUV. There is less driver's leg room, cargo compartment is
really small (they mention it's size in cubic feet, but these numbers say nothing about it's real size, because of the increased height). Mopar made incredible stupid plastic brush and light
guards (rear light guard is attached with a self sticking tape!). Tell me - it's not a cuteute.
A week later I went for another test drive. This time it was a little more favorable, since I didn't have any expectations for the vehicle. But still - you can't get one with the sunroof - it's on
restriction, as my dealer said. Also, nobody stocks Liberties with the off road package - you need to place a special order and wait 10 weeks. All these facts point to one conclusion - they
made this Jeep for housewives, and may be someone, who compares Jeep to Subaru.
Limited edition interior looks better, because of the metal accents, but exterior - nightmare (or Subaru driver's dream). Sport has a much better looking exterior without all those body
colored housewife's bumpers. Unfortunately you cant get the metal accent interior (like in Limited) with the Sport package, but this combination would be the best looking Liberty.

here is my comment:
I am new to this site but I just had to put in my two cents. I found the Liberty reviews rather amusing and sad. It sounded like a number of folks were trying to justify how they felt about their respective vehicle by slamming what they viewed as weaknesses in the other vehicle. Not the kindship one would expect from a name plate that has created a brothership of sorts.

Let's face it. DC has made a decision to compete for more of the SUV market than they were winning. The strategy of targeting potential SUV buyers that would never venture off road seemed like a no brainer. Give them a more well behaved SUV for tooling around town. Sounds like a winner.

I hate to wax philosophic but life is filled with compromise. For the hardcore (or softcore) off-roaders the Liberty is well... an abomination. However, the on-roaders view the Liberty as a winner.

The problem I feel is that DC is abandoning a group within a market segment that made the JEEP name what it was. It's true that real JEEPs are built not from the factory but in the field by folks like you and me. Bigger tires, lift kits, winches, engine modifications and other after market hardware have fueled our desire to build a vehicle that can take us anywhere (and back again).

This was the essence of JEEP:)unlike any other name plate. This essence, the heart and soul of JEEP is on life support... and I 'm not sure of it's prognosis.

here is my comment

To answer Craig and Seans' question: Why would you buy a jeep if you don't go offroading? . . . Because they look "cool" have that "macho," "rugged" look and I guess you could say that alot of people buy into that "concept." I personally like to sit up high in a vehicle which is why I want an SUV and I like to feel more "protected" by the large size. Same reason, I suppose, that people buy sports cars that never plan on racing. You buy into the "concept". And, should I ever want to travel off the beaten track as least I know that the Jeep will be able to handle it better than say a Honda
V or a Toyota RAV4. As far as the Jeep Liberty is concerned, at first glance it's odd looking, but it does grow on you. If you're in the market for a mini-ute (which my husband and I are) the Jeep sure seems to beat out alot them (and yes I've test driven several, including the Jeep Liberty). The Jeep Liberty has a much more "refined" and "upscale" feeling interior as compared to some of the other more affordable mini-utes in the $20-$25,00 range (Honda
V, Toyota RAV4). You definetly feel like you get more for your money with the Jeep as far as the "plushness" feeling of sitting in the cabin. The drive and peppiness of the Jeep Liberty was great! Much better than some of the other V6 mini-utes out there! My only complaint is the crappy gas mileage, but I guess that most all of the V6 SUV's out there get about the same gas mileage.

Also wondering if anyone out there can help relieve my fears of getting an American made car. Up to now I've been strictly a Japanese car buyer as they rate better in consumer digest, seem to hold their resale value better and don't seem to have as many mechanical problems. I'd love to get the new Jeep Liberty, but am a little weary of A) buying American and B) buying a Jeep. They don't seem to have gotten good reviews in Consumer Digest in the past and alot of people I know have problems with them. On the other hand alot of people have been Jeep owners for many years and have owned 2,3,4 of them. All you Jeep owners out there, please help me with input on reliability of the Jeeps (I realize that since the Liberty is new, only time will tell). THANK YOU!

here is my comment

Well, I've look at enough liberty's and well they'll be good grocery gitters for the soccer mom's, but the real SUV is still the CHerokee..
By the way-read the rest of the four wheel drive article and it gives plenty of negative comments. It is very bad for a website to give only the positive 'highlights' of an article-if you read the rest of the article it said that there was significant damage to the trans/transfer case on the testing of the Liberty on the Rubicon-people do your homework!

A

The XJ had an awesome record! A.... the other
sean, like, use a different name & stuff......

I agree... "I want to know one thing: If you are never going to take it off road, why buy a Jeep? Let alone an SUV." This is a very good question!

If you're not going to use a Jeep for what they are, or used to be, designed for... don't buy one. Buy an all wheel drive station wagon if you need room. Buy an all wheel drive car if you want a nice ride, then you have good rain/snow vehicle without wasting a Jeep! Jeeps should ride like trucks, if you don't like that you shouldn't be driving a Jeep, period!

You know things are rediculous when Cadillac is making a SUV, what a freakin joke! Overall i think it's just greed! No one wants to miss out on making money from the "SUV" craze. The same thing happened with sports cars a few years back, you could hardly buy a rear wheel drive sports car! People are slowly learning and manufacturers are bringing them back, lets hope Jeeps come back someday too. Until then i will proudly drive my XJ!

here is my comment, liberty this, liberty that, it sucks, it doesnt suck, can we move on now. i dont mind it, but im starting to want to vomit when every time i come to a jeep news site all i hear bout is the liberty. whats even worse is the fact that its the same shit over and over, only from different sources. WHATS GOIN ON IN THE REST OF THE JEEP WORLD GODDAMNIT!?!?!?!

I predict an initial rush of enthusiasm like the automotive rags and general public have for anything new to be followed by a big sales slowdown, a quickie 'incentive' program to jack up sales figures, and an immediate re-design of the interior....Jeep has waded waist deep into Mr. and Mrs. Cute Ute Buyer territory now, and those folks have an astonishing array of vehicles competing for the consumer dollar...real Jeepers have learned to live with and even cherish the many eccentricites of Jeep vehicles but the audience the Liberty is dancing for will be more demanding and quicker to move on to the next stage if Jeep doesn't deliver....all Jeep had to do was offer the V-8 and Quadra-Drive for the XJ and build the Dakar.....it would have all been so simple...

Mike, for the love of God...please update this
*&$%# site!

Hey Joey those window controls look like the exact same ones that are in my 95 Range Rover Classic. Hmmmm.... Jeep is taking ideas from the other off road industry king. I don't see how anyone could get used to those. On the test drive when i undid the parking brake before leaving and while i was setting it after parking the KJ I rolled down the windows both times. I am happy to say i have very normal size arms and would find it a little annoying hitting those buttons every time i wanted to set my parking brake. If they wanted to take the idea from LR they at least should have kept the console pushed back farther because i have never had a problem with hitting the buttons in the Range Rover.

Also Obi Wan has basically summed up every thing wrong with the Liberty's design. Now all you Liberty fans out there, if you think that the Liberty is as formitable as the XJ after reading that maybe you aren't as smart as you think. The XJ could run 35's with minimal triming on 6 inch lifts.

I read that Ford is doing everything it can to find a way to quickly redesign the Land Rover Defender for sale in the US. They are also staying true to the orginial intentions of the vehicle which is a offroad utility vehicle. Sounds like Ford is building a winner while all I hear from Jeep are rumors that they might drop the wrangler because making it "safe" (aka: side airbags) would be too costly. Or even better replacing the wrangler with a two door liberty convertible vehicle. I'm sorry to say that it looks like Ford with its next Defender and Nissan with it's 02 Offroad package Xterra are born winners while Jeep is creating a run of the mill not true to the brand KJ (Kute Jeep). Its sad that i would have to think about buying something other than Jeep in a few years if i wanted a new vehicle.

Solid Axle Forever,
Griff

PS: I bought a 60's 4x4 Willy's Wagon this weekend. The owner didn't know what year it was other than it was from the 60's. I'll have to figure it out but it is going to be a cool rig when it's done. Nicer than any Liberty, that's for sure

The Jeep Liberty is one very nice car. It is true that the power window controls are very odd but like always, you'll get used to it! The Jeep Liberty drives very well. The Liberty that I own is the Liberty Sport. It is the Basic version(no Cd player, all wheel drive,blah, blah, blah. But whoever wrote that comment about the jeep liberty right before mine must be someone that doesn't fully appreciate a VERY NICE car, that runs great, not YET the most hip car like the PT Cruiser(thankfully), and very stylish!

This is still the real Sean spekun!!!! Griff, I
agree ...... the XTerra with the offroad package,
blows Liberty out of the water. I just restored a
CJ, and if I don't want to spend the 12k to keep
my 99 KJ, then I'll drive the CJ as my primary
vehicle for 6-7 months and get a new XTerra in
the Winter of 2002. Too bad Jeep didn't build a
Dakar, then I wouldn't have to get a Nissan
over a Jeep!

Hey Sean why would you get rid of either of the transfer cases that are on the KJ. First you have the Comand Trac Part time system, and that is tried and true you know it's not going to fail just because you know jeep wouldn't have used it in that wrangler if it couldn't handle the stress of offroading. Then argueably the best transfer case Jeep offers is the NV242 Select Trac. Its been on the XJ's and ZJ's for many a year, Dodge also uses it on it's Durango and Dakota, and the military uses it on the Hummer. On the Hummer its called the NVG242 and its the same thing except it has a transfer case cooler on it. I and every other person out there that dislikes the KJ knows how much every KJ owner/supporter uses the Hummer as the meat of every IFS VS Solid Axle arguement, so why would you go trashing the same transfer case mechanically + a trasfer case cooler that you can get on the liberty and has been a mainstay on the XJ line for 3/4 of its production span. So my money is on that Jeep knows what it has in this case with the two transfer cases and isn't going to trash them in favor of a new design, definately not on a vehicle that Jeep and even DC has so much riding on.

Something amusing I found... The Xterra (The KJ's nemisis) is getting a redesigned interior, front end, and hood next year. Thats all because its getting the supercharged engine from the Frontier. Despite its IFS and its overall thing of the moment status, I would it over a 02 Liberty any day. Also they are going to offer it with a offroad package with manual locking hubs. Finally someone has seen the light. Its just a shame it has to be Nissan and not Jeep.

Well that's about it, Funny to hear those tailight guards are held on with tape, but they're Rubicon tough like everything else on the KJ... Um yeah right. These bad boys (KJ of course) are going to be like first generation RAV4's, they were cool and trend setting when they came out but my how they have aged horribly. But since the KJ is the successor of the XJ it will look good after 17 years, right? Not quite. For all of those who remember myself, sorry i haven't posted in awhile i just get worn out by reading people like babs post who make you think she's got a jacked up KJ out back that will own all of our decked out XJ's. That'll be the day.

Solid Axle Forever,
Griff

joe jeep, canceling the off-road package does not surprise me one bit! DC still uses the same transfer case output design that is plagued with vibrations in the XJ and TJ. Great design work DC! Simply having New Venture redesign the output shaft and DC install a better (CV style) rear drive shaft is the answer but DC couldn't figure that out on the XJ either.

babs, you are one misinformed/misled individual! The XJ was made for so long because it was a great vehicle, not because of incentives. The sales of the Grand have been lower for the past year than the XJ, gee what do you think that means? Just because misled idiots that think a truck should drive like a car think the Liberty is a far superior vehicle does not mean that the XJ is/was not a good design one.

The Liberty is not some great feat of engieering either! Sure it's chassis is stiffer and they made it look modern but the basic design is all Cherokee. The Grand Cherokee was based on the Cherokees design also so i guess the Grand is a POS too eh?

Everyone can buy their little Liberties, but just keep in mind where the design came from and that they are not any better than any other vehicle on the road. The XJ is a classic ORIGINAL design, the KJ is just following the SVU craze. We'll see if it's around in 18 years! NOT!

Just because it has a 7 slot grill does not mean it's a Jeep, that's just advertisement hype. If you buy into that BS i have a mountain side chalet down here in Florida i'll sell you for a good price.

Real Jeeps are built not bought!

The heck with the Wrangler, bring back the
CJ7's body and put it on a modern TJ frame!
That would rule!!!!!!

This new liberty is great! Finally, the dream Jeep that I have been waiting for. I can't describe how excited that I am that Jeep finally has an IFS suspension, that is as good, if not better, than a solid axle. The height of the vehicle is also perfect. I love it! And what about the cargo area? Dont even get me started on that. So much room, I can just stack and stack, and keep on stacking stuff in. Best of all, though, has to be the front end. Wow. It is beautiful. I just love that nose, traditional 7 slotted grill, and those round headlights. I am in awe at such an awesome vehicle. And dont forget the back bumber that is molded for the spare. They must have borrowed that from the Tracker, and how I love the Tracker.

Actually, if he's referring to the article I think he is... the Liberty in question wasn't stock. In fact, it was labeled a "prototype" at the time.

I, too, split my time between Jeeps and old British iron. The Mini (including the Cooper S) was a novelty car. The new (BMW-designed) car has *nothing* in common with the original other than a resemblence. It's like comparing a '01 Miata to a '62 Lotus Elan. I'll take the Lotus, thank you very much. A '72 XKE vs. '01 XK8? I'll take the '72. A '02 Liberty vs. '01 Cherokee? Cherokee. The reasons are manifold, but suffice it to say if you really have no idea why then there's nothing I can say to make you understand.

As for a stock XJ making it: there have been almost twenty years of stock XJ's attempting the Rubicon. Some made it, some didn't. I know of one that made it with nothing added but appropriate tires. It's sitting in my garage.