ScramblerKen..you're dead right, I hated the huge
buggy style fiberglass top. I would love to see both vehicles done...right! I always loved the old CJ6. I'm a big fan of the conversions at AEV.
I've always thought Jeep shouild look to them for
design cues...

I can't be too upset about a stretched Wrangler rather than a Scambler. I think of it more as an opportunity for aftermarket companies. After all, if you take the back seat out of a stretched Wrangler and take the top off, you have a pickup bed of sorts. This makes a stretched Wrangler more usefull than a Scrambler. I'm sure that aftermarket companies could come up with all sorts of creative tops for this. For instance, you could do something like the Bestop half top and have a half soft top with a cover over the bed that can be removed to create a pickup bed. Or you could do some sort of modular hard top with removeable panels to create whatever you need at the time somewhat like the Avalanche or GMC version. Maybe Jeep will amaze us all and do something like this, if not now, maybe on the next generation Wrangler when they have to worry about side impact airbags. I would think that it wouldn't be too hard for an aftermaket company to cut some suicide doors into the stretched Wrangler to make a 4-door or at least a third access door like on the Saturn Coupe. You could also attach all sorts of racks and baskets for added cargo. If I could get all this, I might be able to convince my wife that we could use a Wrangler again.

Like most people here, and DC themselves I don't have a clue as to what they are doing. As some other here have posted this news may mean that there is hope for the Dakar. The only problem with that is the fact that the current Wrangler platform is nearing the end of its cycle. What happens when the next gen Wrangler shows up? Are we then back to one Wrangler product again while
DC starts all over again. I don't know why there can't be four or five different
Wranglers that would include the current model along with Brute, Scrambler, Dakar and a stretched model. Then for the SUV crowd they could have the Liberty (along with a two door version) and the Grand. That way the Wrangler
line becomes the Halo vehicle of the Jeep brand as it should be. Then they would have something for everyone. Lastly the numbnuts in charge need to stop worrying that one Jeep model will take sales away from another Jeep model. All that matters is the fact that they would be Jeep sales that are taking sales away from every other manufacturer.

Oh well I was looking forward to having a scrambler but I guess it was to good to be true. Guess it's time to go but a new chevy 1500. I realy hate DC

Ok everyone, this is what we have been wanting!!
You have to read this article. Here are the highlights.

• An updated Liberty that goes on sale next spring along with an all-new Liberty Renegade. Renegade has skid plates and fender-flare covers for real off-road driving, as well as a tougher roof rack, light bar and a more squared-off military look than the standard Liberty. The current Renegade is mostly a looks package, basically identical to Liberty except for a roof-mounted light bar, Bernhard admits. The new Renegade "is more of a genuine can-do package," he says.

• An all-new Grand Cherokee that goes on sale a year from now. It has a longer and wider wheelbase for more front-and rear-seat room and wider doorways, plus a more powerful 5.7-liter Hemi engine, all addressing consumer complaints about the current model. But it doesn't have a third-row-seat option, a popular feature in sport-utility vehicles these days.

• Four Jeeps coming in 2005 and 2006: a boxy, Land Rover-like Jeep larger than Grand Cherokee and obviously long enough for three rows of seats; an all-new Wrangler built on a new engineering platform; an SUV priced under $20,000 whose design is not yet finalized; a four-door, Wrangler-inspired answer to General Motors' planned downsized Hummer H3.

It's not the size of your Wrangler, it's how you use it.

Just when we had lost all hope for Jeep they are going to build something, may not the perfect something, but a vehicle to get excited about.
Somebody at DC must be listening at least a little. I would really consider trading for a new Unlimited Wrangler. I am not a serious offroader expert but how would the longer wheelbase affect it's offroading abilities? Or would it make any difference.

here is my comment
I just finished looking at the autoweek article when a new release appeared. Dated Nov. 13th
02:19:19 eastern standard time.
It states that a streched wrangler named the
"Jeep unlimited", will go on sale this summer as a 2005 model.
I'm going to purchase one!

My interest is to have them produce a stretch Wrangler with 4 passenger seating, a Diesel Engine, and the Rubicon package. The modular hardtop would be a nice touch also (what happened to that?)

To Clap Trap:

2WD jeeps are built and sold because they have a purpose. Where else can I get good MPG, reliability, usable space for hauling consruction materials, a limited slip differential, a height which can fit in my 50 year old garage, a roof rack that's usable, and an elevated ride height for less than $17K out the dealer's showroom as NEW?

My '99 XJ 2.5L 5speed w/ Trak-loc is such a vehicle and it has never let me down in the winters of Chicago.

I believe that is a long wheel base. And it does sound as if they may be beginning to understand what Jeep is. And Jeep can build a better H3 than AM General. It seems the H2s are always in the shop.

BTW, is it just me or is the Rubicon in that USAToday picture a long wheel base version?

The USA Today article (http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-11-16-jeep_x.htm) seems to address a lot of the fears people have about the brand. It seems to me like they are going the direction most folks on this site want. The thing about a four door to compete with the H3 sounds promising. Also, a Liberty Renegade with a different (squared off) look?

I wish Toyota would bring out a shortbed Tacoma with SFA. Then Toyota could teach Diamler how an ORV pickup should be built, just as they have taught Diamler how high quality, reliable luxury cars should be built (Lexus).

It would be great to see an updated Scrambler but I am a Mother of 3, with two adults and three children just doesn't work. My favorite is the CJ-7 - only seats 4! I would love to have a CJ-7 stretched to seat 6! Jeeps aren't only for Guys so give us Gals a real Sports Utility Vehicle! Let the Jeep do what it does best,just remember we carry car seats, strollers, groceries, and dry cleaning! Thanks!
Jeep Fan!

here is my comment

On a stretched Wrangler, I'd like to see a full rear door like on the Land Rover for easy access unless they make it a four door like a Dakar.

If you did have such a door, then the Wrangler would probably have to be all metal. That'd be cool with a removable panel for the roof.

Here is my wish list:
-diesel option(that is supposed to be offered in the Liberty.)

-A manual or automatic (the 5 speed offered in the UK on the diesel Cherokee/Liberty would be nice.)

-Hard (preferably modular) or soft top or both.

-Available Rear foldable bench or rear buckets (as in the AEV 112").

-Offer a full length safari rack on the hard or soft top.

-A factory Rhino-lined or Line-xed interior would be great.

Woo Hoo..sorry about the Scrambler, but I pray this is going in the direction of the Dakar!!

here is my comment
Been told by one of the dealer gm's the new wrangler will be stretched. the new grand may not turn to many on.. They will probably like the old 04's better.. The liberty doesn't look too different from what he said.. He went to an
event for the dealers and seen them in person.

(Rich I was not suggesting it was an AEV model only giving pictures of the 104" and 112" model for comparison).

As it turns out, I was right. It is a 15" stretch.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6617

Sorry to sound cynical but I'll beleive this news when I actually see any of these spiffy new Jeep models on a dealer's lot. This looks like just more P.R. about "new models" that Diamler truthfully has no intention of ever producing and/or selling in the US. Just more "string them along" BS from Diamler.

I am not impressed by the pictures in USA Today. I have seen equally nice pictures of the Dakar and new Scrambler, of prototypes that were just as well finished and never produced for sale.

The article didn't mention anything about the Jeep Compass. Based on Diamlers PR model, I therefore suspect that THIS is the model that will actually make it to production. I Look for Diamler to continue with the Liberty, Grand Cherokee, and Compass (Scout) on IFS, and then kill off the TJ for good in '05-06 with no new TJ/CJ models at all.

USA Today: "a four-door, Wrangler-inspired answer to General Motors' planned downsized Hummer H3."

Does anyone here speak Dutch?
This is the Jeep Rescue. Apparently, it is a concept that will probably be shown at the NAIAS.

http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/?id=19836

Here are some pics:
http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/images/19837.1.gen.jpg

http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/images/19838.1.gen.jpg

http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/images/19839.1.gen.jpg

here is my comment

The new styling cues are encouraging. It's been tough to see Jeep loose its edge the last few years.

I hope that Jeep produces something cool to compete with the H3 but I won't beleive it until I see it.

As for the new Grand Cherokee, I'm assuming that it will look like the Commander concept.

I'm glad to see that they are planning to improve the looks of the Liberty. I'm not a huge fan of the Liberty, but I see it as a good vehicle for those who may only go off-roading once or twice a year; for hunting and what-not.

Malcomxj is right. A lot of this depends on the new "Wrangler". I'd love to see them go the direction of the CJ as far as styling. If you are going to look like a Jeep on the outside, you might as well look like one on the inside. Then base all other small Jeeps (Unlimited and H3 competitor) on the new "Wrangler/CJ".

Check out the jeep article in todays USATODAY.com

Hopefully it will look like this: http://www.aev-conversions.com/Gallery112.html. Add the diesel that will be in the Liberty, and I am sold.

I'm not sure I understand the difference between the TJ
Scrambler and Jeep Unlimited model. My impression is that
the Unlimited is just a stretched body at the rear of another
foot or so, while the Scrambler is a longer frame. What I'd
really like is a hardtop TJ with ambulance doors for easier
and faster loading, kinda like those Alaskan postal Jeeps
and Israeli defense vehicles.

If DC's stretched Wrangler is anything like the AEV 112" wheelbase conversion (http://www.aev-conversions.com/gallery/Redlodge1.jpg), I would seriously consider it. Make it a four-door and it's a done deal for me. I'm definitely not alone in this and hope DC is listening.

Thanks DD for posting the address, and that is a very good suggestion. We should mail DC and let them know what we think. I mailed a 3-page letter today letting DC know my concerns. For XJGary, you can e-mail DC, but most companies actually take snail-mail letters more serious. I think if you look around on the www.jeep.com site, you will find a ‘contact us’ box near the bottom of the web site. I think if you follow that connection, you eventually get to a selection to e-mail them.

The Jeep Unlimited is not a bad idea as it does address a common complaint among Wrangler owners. The concept is simple, extend the trunk space behind the back seat, and maintain the soft top/hard top combination that is unique to the Wrangler. Sadly, this is not going to be a 4-door Wrangler like the Dakar.

On a different note, maybe this company can produce what we want:

www.crosslander4x4.com

It might turn out to be a piece of junk, but at least they seem to have the right attitude. The vehicle looks like the old Land Rovers, and supposedly the price tag is going to be around $20K.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=08351632

10 inch wheelbase stretch

15 inch increase in overall length

Even though I like what is said in the USA today article, I have my doubts. Why all of a sudden the German management is telling us they are making Jeep be the king of off-road? This is the same guys that said Jeep does not have to be Rubicon tested, but rescue ready. This year, we are ‘trail-rated’, but they don’t tell you what tests the vehicles went thru.

Isn’t this the same group that said the Daimler Chrysler merger is a merger of equals? Hasn’t Dieter Zetsche been stating how Jeep needs to broaden its horizons to build less off-road capable vehicles so they can be more profitable? These are the guys that said the XJ would continue to be built after the Liberty became available, and they change their minds once the Liberty hit production. For several years, photos of a new Scrambler get released, and they scrap that project too. The comment is we actually never intended to build the Scrambler.

Sorry for being cynical, and I hope what is said in the USA article comes true, but the timing of the article and what has happened in the past makes me concerned.

"Jeep lovers like Sally Perkins, a Denver Wrangler owner who off-roads with her fiancé, couldn't be happier. "I saw something on a Jeep Web site about softer Jeeps, and thought, 'God, I better buy two before they turn them into Hondas,' " Perkins says."

This is still a concern for me, and this puff piece does nothing to quell those fears. Hopefully, the massive number of new models will include SFA's. The notes on styling are promising, though. It's telling that until last month the chief designer had never even been on the Rubicon (and it was implied that he'd never taken a Jeep offroad). That's extremely bothersome to me and highlights a company that doesn't understand the core competancy of the brand. It just occurred to this guy now to take one on a trail?

I'm suspicious, as this could be more marketing than reality (like that ridiculous "Trail Rated" scheme). I'll wait and see what they do with the Wrangler.

USA Today: "a four-door, Wrangler-inspired answer to General Motors' planned downsized Hummer H3."

Sounds a lot like the Dakar. Wishlist: retractable canvas top/oversized sunroof, Rubicon edition, seats 5, rubberized floor or herculined from the factory, more storage in the rear than the Liberty.

Yes it is similar to the AEV conversions though
it is the real deal since someone earlier posted
a shot of it from a Camp Jeep trip..it has the
Rubicon 16" wheels.....
Thank God...finally

Long Wheelbase - Somewhere in between 104"
http://www.aev-conversions.com/Gallery/P1010086.jpg
and 112"
http://www.aev-conversions.com/gallery/Mann4.jpg

Schmack,
It is not just you, I do believe that is a long-wheelbase model.

I think Jeep should definatly bring back the scambler and maybe make a rubicon model
the new rubicon Is the best addition to the
Jeep bread keep it up!

What do the folks at Diamler think they are accomplishing by constantly stringing everybody along for years with new model announcements and then "cancelling" them before production?

According to the Toledo Blade quote, Diamler never had any intention of producing the new Scrambler. What was the point of producing the prototype and raising false expectations, just as they did with the Dakar?

I hope I am wrong but I doubt that we will see the Unlimited model produced. This is just more of the same nonsense from Diamler that we saw with the Dakar and new Scrambler. I won't be altering any plans to buy a new vehicle based on the expectation that the Unlimited will be produced.

Look for Diamler to announce that they have "cancelled" the Unlimited sometime this spring. Then they will announce that a new model similar to the Dakar or new Scrambler or Unlimited will "definately be produced" along with a redesigned TJ in '05-'07 and how they have "already applied for" tax breaks and training grants for upgrading the Toldeo plant to produce these spiffy new Jeep models. As always, its never going to happpen.

For those that have not seen the ‘stretched’ 4-passenger Wrangler that was at Camp Jeep 2002, I found someone’s web site that has a picture:

http://webpages.charter.net/johnhuebner/campjeephtm.html

Keep in mind this was a proto-type, so the production version could be very different.

The postal Jeep was also a very interesting variation to the CJ-8. Probably closer to what Jon Porter and Wyatt might like was the Australian CJ-8 derivative called the CJ8 Overlander. Take a look at:

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Photos/Australia/CJ8OverlanderSpecs.jpg

The back door replaced the swing out tail-gate. Take a look at this site, and drill down to the write-up on the Overlander, and look at the pictures.

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/World/Australia.html

I hope Jeep takes advantage of the stretched Wrangler (the Unlimited?) and offer several models. The Wrangler is such a versatile truck that you can turn it into an SUV, a pickup, or a mini panel van. By replacing the bolt-in roll cage, and using different tops, you can make the vehicle customized to your needs. If Jeep does not do it, maybe some third party company will. Maybe some clever guys like AEV could replace the tub on the Unlimited, and give us the Dakar?

First, the plan was to have both stretched Wranglers produced, not just the Scrambler. Basically both use the exact same platform, but they have different roll cages and tops. Production cost is not too different if you built either one or both. By building both, you have a larger audience to sell too.

Rich, I think your complaint about the looks stemmed from the ‘buggy’ look of the hard top, since basically the vehicle is the same as the Wrangler. Take a look at the Egyptian TJL. The top was much different, and they added a roll bar similar to the original CJ8.

Second, the roll cage is an issue in converting the Unlimited model to a pickup. Now if Jeep was clever, they could design the roll cage in such a manner that the new unit could be switched from 4 passenger model to a pickup. Even though the aftermarket might come up with something, it would be easier if Jeep just offered both designs. Having a third party modify the unit could cause issues with insurance or warranty repair.

Personally, I think it is great there is such enthusiasm regarding this new offering. There are some neat possibilities, and hopefully Jeep will unveil the Unlimited at the Detroit auto show so we can get a better idea of what the vehicle will be.

here is my comment

I checked out a few Crosslander sites. It looks like a cool, bare bones, steel, off-roader; a poor man's Land Rover Disco.

Parts will be hard to get, though.

Hopefully, if these vehicles sell well, it'll force DC to build Jeeps like the Dakar.

It's in the wheelhouse for off-roading as far as wheelbase. Shorter is better, generally. If it comes out at 112", it'll still be perfect. It changes the way you tackle certain terrain but I've never had a problem keeping up in a Cherokee and have found a few advantages to boot.

The bonus is that you'll actually be able to tow something with it, as well. Utility goes way up with the added inches (in so many ways). ;)

This is exciting!! Much more so than the Scrambler that is next to useless. Does anyone know what the wheelbase of the Unlimited will be? I wonder how it campares to AEV conversions as far as wheelbase goes? Go to http://www.aev-conversions.com/index.html to see what a streched Wrangler looks like. Pretty cool with a hardtop!

I would think they would go more for the hardtop with slide back safari roof like on the original
Dakar idea

It was me that said the Scrambler looked like and old Model T truck. Scrambler Ken, I agree not having a new niche pickup from Jeep sucks. But the one model they were showing, sucked more, it's
appearance was almost laughable! the old Scrambler
was a good looking rugger truck. Oh and guys, stop
mentioning the Brute in your emails..it is a conversion vehicle from AEV which Jeep could never produce legally.
I still love the idea of a stretched Wrangler, 4 door, or 2 door. I'd love a little more cargo space! Now, I realize the old CJ6 eventually failed, but personally love them! (Just try finding one!)
My only concern is that it won't be like the Dakar but more like the Liberty, due to new
safety laws comcerning airbags, side-impact bags,
and the governments problem with convertibles and removable doors!

DD:
Is there an email address for that Outside Suggestions address? I hate snail mail.

Mail your suggestions to DC:
DaimlerChrysler Corporation
Outside Suggestion Office
CIMS:483-01-07 800
Chrysler Drive East
Auburn Hills, MI 48326-2757

My dream Jeep lineup...

TJ - bread n butter jeep, under 15k
TJ-8 - Small pickup, under 18k
TJ-Dakar - TJ based 4 door to replace bastard KJ
Icon - baby ute, IFS/IRS daily driver, 30 mpg min
Grand Cherokee - high end, high $

Rebadge/regrille Ram trucks and add to Jeep line

And finally NOTHING with Jeep on the tailgate should be available in 2wd.

The Toledo Blade had a little more on the subject:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031112/BUSINESS02/111120090

Yes, it is true the original Scrambler only sold 27,000 units, but at the time, the market was filled with other vehicles in the personal pickup truck category. The Scrambler is also one of the only convertable trucks on the market. One of the great features of the Wrangler is being a convertable.

Granted, this is a niche market, but selling the 2 stretch models could have reached the 20,000 target. The basic goal was to increase Wrangler sales by offering low cost (in manufacturing) additions to the line. The Dakar would be a considerable design and production cost model, hence I don't see that happening.

Oh well, looks like we should get use to the new Jeep slogan, "If it is off-road trail-ready, it's NOT a future Jeep".

It figures. DCX couldn't find it's way out of a room with no walls.

Early projections were for 20,000 units per year. They only made 27,000 in the full run of 81-85+. How did they expect to sell 20,000 per year? Let's face it. It is a niche vehicle, derived from THE most niche vehicle in a niche market.

I'll keep my '84 CJ8 thankyewverymuch.

While I'm disappointed that the Scrambler won't be offered as a 2005, the article does seem to imply that it may be offered subsequently. There's hope.

The news about the stretched Wrangler is potentially huge. Call me an optimist but might they be referring to a Dakar-like vehicle when they're discussing the "stretched Wrangler?" Obviously there's no information in the AutoWeek article but the public has lavished universal praise on the Dakar concept for the last few years. Might DC be listening and altered their plans to produce it?

Realistically, I know this probably isn't the case and we'll just end up with a slightly longer two-door variant. But the possibility does exist we'll get a four-door enclosed vehicle.

On the one hand, I think this would sell like hotcakes (beyond the 14k-20k units the Scrambler was projected to sell). It could also prove the viability of the platform and be a precursor to a revised Scrambler. On the other hand, I think it's probable that DC would view such a vehicle (four-door SWB utility) as a potential sales-stealer from the Liberty.

All completely conjecture on my part, of course. Since there's literally no information it's simply wishful thinking and DC is probably planning something much more mundane. There is hope, though.

(...and I agree that Jeep should move into producing work trucks again)

Well, I'm sort of pissed about this. I had hoped to see a long version of the Scrambler (not the 4 foot bed!) make production. Actually, I had hoped to see this happen with a diesel option and I'd have been buying without a doubt. But if this delay is true and the fate of the Scrambler is now uncertain. I'll probably now spend my truck dollars with Ford on the new F-150.

It is too bad that DC can't get their heads out of their butts and take action on some of the better ideas they have generated over the past 5 or 6 years (such has the Drakar, etc.). Jeep continues to lose market share while they screw around. I for one am tired of it and will move on to other brands.

If this is true, this is very disappointing news. Personally, I was hoping to see one of these new ‘Scramblers’ join my fleet of vehicles in my driveway, and I suspect others did too. I’m also disappointed in what this decision could also imply.

For those that have not been up to date on this, for several years, DC has been hinting that several models of stretched versions of the current Wrangler might be built. Back in 1997, when the TJ was new, a concept 4-door Wrangler called the Dakar was shown. There was serious consideration on building this, but sadly, some bonehead in charge killed this idea. At the 2002 Camp Jeep, two new concepts were shown. One was the pickup, and the other a stretched 2-door unit similar to the current Wrangler, but with more trunk space.

At the NADA conference (basically a show for dealers), DC once again was showing off the pickup. The hint was DC was going to build this to help increase sales of the Wrangler. The stretched 2-door 4-passenger unit was absent at the show, so it looked like the pickup was the choice. In the past couple of months, the hint was that both units would appear.

Now the 4-passenger unit is a good idea, but it is not all that radical. The unit does address some complaints from consumers, but basically, it does not introduce anything new to the Jeep line. In some cases, this unit would take sales from the current Wrangler, not add additional sales.

The ‘Scrambler’ pickup version would provide sales from a different group of customers. Back in the 80s’ when the original Scrambler was built, there was a ‘craze’ to have a small personal truck. The Subaru BRAT, Dodge Rampage, VW Rabbit, just to name a few, were all introduced around this time. Sadly, the over crowded market hurt sales of the Scrambler, so it was never the big success.

Looking at what is available today, there is little in the way of personal trucks, especially ones that are convertibles. The Chevy SSR is the only convertible production truck that I can think of, and frankly, the price is out of reach for most consumers. Add the off-road capability of the Wrangler, and you have a very unique little truck. In fairness, this is a niche market, but Jeep would have it all to themselves. I suspect selling 20,000 units a year was not too unrealistic.

Now what really upsets me is what this might hint about the future for Jeep. By creating a small pickup in the Jeep line, the potential for larger trucks seemed a possibility. If Jeep was successful with the stretched line, was the Dakar still a possibility? The Scrambler also meant DC was still allowing Jeep to build off-road capable vehicles. By dropping this model, is DC hinting that Jeep will never be able to build trucks or expand the off-road line?

Why do the boneheads in charge keep trying to make Jeep just be like every other car company? Why not let Jeep do what they have done best, which is to offer vehicles that the other guys don’t sell? I’m not saying Jeep can only build 4x4s as we know Jeep had many unique non-4-wheel drive vehicles in the past. Jeep was always that ‘other guy’, and now Jeep is morphing into just another car company. How much longer will it be before the Jeep name is in the history books like the Plymouth name?

Not sorry about the scrambler (not)...someone mentioned it looked like a model T and they were right! If it looks like the conversions on DD's website it may be a start in the right direction. Does anyone think a hemi would be the right choice? DC needs to add all the bells and whistles, hike the price up and try to compete with the Range Rover...