Announcing The Holabird Memorial Protest Email-A-Thon !

Are you saddened and disgusted with the direction DamnChrysler is taking Jeep Corporation ?

Have you seen one Tonka Toy 'concept' vehicle too many ?

Let the gentlemen from Stuttgart know how you as a loyal Jeep owner feel !!

1. Go to www.dcanswers.com
2. Click on 'CONTACT US'
3. Click 'OWNER'
4. Click 'GENERAL COMMENTS/QUESTIONS'
5. Click 'OUR VEHICLES' for a Subject
6. Enter your choice of a descriptive comment. I suggest 'Quit Screwing With Jeep Tradition !' Be creative.
7. Tell them exactly how you feel about your Jeep and its heritage.
8. Feel better.

Thanks !!!

dana300

I think Rich is right. It is totally ironic to the point it is amusing. But lost in all the giddyness of the KJ's debut was the introduction of the Jeep Willys concept vehicle. This is truely one capable vehicle. Hey Mike is maybe you should check it out and swing a article by us. If Jeeps looking to reshape its brand image from straight lines to curves this concept is curvy enough to not be old looking but it no cute ute. Check it out http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/concept/willys.htm

Why do completely away with the "not so old" in the effort to appeal to the "outback generation"? There are some of us remaining who appreciate the latest technology, room and confort, as well as dependability in an SUV. I don't doubt that the Liberty will sell, but it is my opinion, it will certainly not appeal to most of us who are use to the Grand! It would seem that, with the appeal of the Grand in the over crowded SUV market that they would want to keep a winner. It leaves us no other comparable choices in this market place.

How is it that 5 to 10 people on this page seem to have driven the KJ Liberty. Since all of you have driven it I assume you should know each other. I just find it hard to believe that all of you have driven one. Even if you have, you have driven it on some sort of pre-done Jeep off road trail. Jeep wouldn't let you test drive the KJ Liberty anywhere where there is any chance of the suspension failing or getting hung up real bad. This is like the car magazines that have tested it. They aren't going to subject it to the rigors of the stuff us who complain about it not being as capable as our XJ's. I know what you are saying, "but Griff they have tested it on the rubicon trail." First Jeep has made themselves a section of the rubicon trail at thier proving grounds. They get it to run over this before they run it over the same thing in California. They don't take it the whole trail or over the harder sections because no Jeep stock vehicle can do it. I have been to the Rubicon and seen CJ's with 6 inch lifts and coil over suspensions get hung up or stuck in the mud. You need suspension mods ususally to get over the whole trail.

Also I applaud Jeep if they plan to come out with the Dakar in 03. But I'm only clapping if its the same Dakar at all the Jeep Camps in 97 and 98. When Jeep owners say they look forward to the Dakar they mean the concept from a few years ago. No watered down IFS V6 things. They say the KJ was Dakar inspired. All I see is kinda the rear side windows from the Dakar. That isn't Dakar inspired. So I only look forward to 2003 if the Dakar comes out in its orginal show car form.

Also I think that if there should be a replacement for the Cherokee it should be nothing less that a boxy midsize SUV with squarehead lights. I totally embrace the round head lights. But lets keep the round head lights on the Wranglers. Wranglers head lights are suppose to be similars to the CJ's. When I think KJ I shouldn't think CJ. Every Jeep truck of the past didn't have round headlights. You don't see round head lighted SJ Wagoneers around. Jeep didn't mean for ever truck to have round headlights. Every Jeep has its own personal style. By roundhead lighting every Jeep they lose their indivuality. The Wranglers have round head lights, the XJ had boxy shape with square headlights, and the WJ just has nothing standard from model to model but the 7 slat grill. I think the KJ and WJ are the begining of a Jeep brand that has lost itself in the trends and sleek designs of "SUV turning in cars and minivan market."

Thats my 2 cents. Just remember all you KJ lovin freaks out there. If there weren't people like me in this message board there would be nothing to talk about. You would all just be talking about how cool the fake plastic aluminum is that is scattered all over that cutesy beast you all love. I hope that guy is fired. By the way put a down payment on 2001 XJ Sport 2 door and traded in my 96 XJ 2 door Sport. Guy at the dealer told me to wait till this summer and he could "put me in the Jeep the whole 4 wheeling world is talking about." I laughed and said, I'd take the XJ. Long live the XJ!!!

When can I test drive one of these?

I hope Sean and the article in the Providence Journal is correct. I always thought the Dakar would have been a better replacement for the Cherokee. With a stretched platform like the Dakar, I had always hoped they would produce a pickup truck version like the old CJ8 Scrambler.

With the end of Cherokee production, there would be plenty of room in the old plant to build additional models of the TJ. I'm sure true Jeep enthusiasts would like to have a choice of true off-road vehicles (the TJ Wrangler, Dakar, and TJ-Scrambler). For the rest, there would be the Liberty and the Grand Cherokee.

Sadly, with the way the auto industry is going, and with the new heads of DC, I sorta doubt we will see this, but we can still hope.

Providence Journal, in an article today about
the Northeast International Auto Show, states
that the Dakar will be on display and will likely
be a production model in 2003 to replace the
Cherokee. The article goes on to say the
Cherokee production ends with the
introduction of the Liberty later this year... but
the Dakar would likely appeal to XJ buyers
where the Liberty is aimed at bringing new
customers into the Jeep family. Until now I
though the Liberty killed the Dakar, if this isn't
the case then I don't have a problem with the
Liberty at all!!! AS LONG AS THEY BUILD THE
DAKAR IN 2003!!!

The biggest misconception about the Liberty,
expressed and elsewhere, is that it is aimed
strictly at the
Vs, the Rav4s, etc., and that it
won't work off road. That's just flat out not
true. Read what they say in 4 Wheel & Off-Road, or
Motor Trend if you don't believe me.

Sure, Jeep wants to get as many Rav4/
V customers
as posible, but they also want as many Xterra and
Rodeo customers as possible too. Despite what many
have expressed here, the Liberty "IS" a legitimate
off roader, and a worthy successor to the

Looks like we have two definite sides to a raging debate on a vehicle that only ONE of the posters has actually seen in the flesh! Isn't this a bit premature? I am a franchised Jeep Dealer and have been a dealer for over 20 years for this and other makes. Every time a beloved vehicle that's past it's prime is replaced, we hear the same drivel, "Oh, the old one was soooo good and now they've gone and screwed it all up!" Folks, take it from me: The XJ is a dinosaur. Sure it's fine off-road (as are ALL Jeeps), but in every other regard it falls short of the other more state-of-the-art vehicles available today. And insofar as that "wonderful 4.0 liter..." - it's a rough idling, noisy, inefficient lump that accelerates acceptably... You ought to be rejoicing in the new high technology engines, folks. If they're anywhere near as good as the 4.7 V8 in the Grand Cherokee, I can't wait... The simple reason they are discontinuing the XJ is this: IT DOESN'T SELL WORTH A FLIP ANYMORE! DC (and my dealership) is in business to sell cars and make a profit. To do so in today's market you gotta be cutting edge - and you have to stand out. The only thing I'm not wild about is the name. But, mark my words, this KJ is going to be fantastic. Oh, by the way, I've also seen it in the flesh.

I also agree with KJrules. If you are a true Jeep enthusiast then you will give
the Liberty a chance. Like all Jeeps that have come before it this vehicle is
going to develope an intensely loyal group of owners. In fact I think that it will
win over a fair number of XJ owners along the way. Anyone who is a true Jeep
enthusiast undoubtly has their personal favorite, for me it is the XJ, for someone else it might be the MB, CJ, Jeepster, Comanche or any one of the other great vehicles that have carried the Jeep name. I remember when the
Xj was introduced it recieved pretty much the same treatment because of its
uni-body construction and 6 cylinder engine, it wasn't exactly welcomed into the
Jeep family by the self appointed jeep purist. Even so this vehicle went on to win over millions all over the world. I have no doubt the Liberty will continue
this great Jeep tradition. However its a pretty safe bet that you can count GRIFF
out of that group. However I see no reason to discontinue the Cherokee.

OK, let's set the record straight. I am a DC employee who has worked on this thing. I'm getting one shortly, in March. Nobody who has posted on this board - albeit a few DC engineers - know wtf they're talking about.

Facts on the new KJ:

1) It's structure is 70% stiffer than the XJ's
2) The engine is 50% smoother, and was built on the 4.7 layout - 2 cans
3) The KJ has survived the Rubicon trail (Petersen's tested it)
4) It can tow 5000lbs - as much as the XJ
5) It has a greater GVW than the XJ
6) The vehicle layout was designed and mules were running before the merger
7) This vehicle is designed by the Jeep platform, which is independent of Truck or car engineering
8) I have never seen so much desinformation as what is published in these pages. Guys, if you don't know, stop swinging your banjos and smell the coffee; this vehicle is superior to the XJ in every important aspect.

I'm not one to give our company secrets like the sob who gave you the Toledo pictures, but I can say this: The Jeeps are not only about tradition, they are also about innovation. Give this rig a chance and go see for yourself at the Detroit Autoshow.

Did anyone follow the thread to the concept Jeep Liberty Renegade? It's still not the Dakar but it's better looking then the stock Liberty.

I love it! the first picture they show on the
new In Depth Liberty page is of the beloved
DAKAR! How ironic! he vehicle they SHOULD
have made!
Rich

I think you can get ~3.50 with the I-6. My '95 YJ has a 5 Speed and 3.52 gears I beleive. I bet you have to get the manual shift to get the higher gears though!

I , for one , am going to buy a Liberty.
I have owned a '72 CJ , and a '94 YJ(still have).
It is time for a little more room.

I do have a few questions for any Jeep in the know people out there.
What will the axle ratio be in the Liberty?
Will it come with a 4 cylinder?
Will it be available with 2 doors?

I use my Jeeps to 4-wheel in Moab , Utah, and with the '94 I bought it with a 4 cylinder because that was the only way to get 4:10 gears.
In the 6 cylinder you are stuck with 3:08 gears,
which are perfect for the highway , but not if you like going up 85% grades.
Thankx in advance for any info.

When I said that Jeeps that have round headlights should only be wrangler type vehicles and that in the past only CJ type vehicle had them I want you to look at the front end of that station wagon and tell me what you see from the a pillar to the end of the hood. That wagon is straight CJ, while it isn't the same parts and fits as a CJ it is definately very close to the lines of a CJ. What I was talking about is Jeep with no obvious relation to the TJ CJ or YJ having round head lights. The KJ in no way is close to any of the Wrangler/CJ Jeeps and it shouldn't have round head lights for that very reason. When I say that I only say it because that seems to be the only thing Jeep designers are doing to embrace Jeep heritage. Jeep heritage is going from rough and tough SUV and trucks to SUV's that could be basically could be in any other branch of DC's brands and minus the round head lights, square-ish wheel well opening, and 7 slat grill not look out of place. That my friends it not what a Jeep should be. My KJ loving friends you mention Hummer as someone who is a successful IFS truck maker. Well I'll give you that but also look at the hummer design. Does it compromise itself by being trendy, no. Does it sell, yes every non-army one they make sells at a large profit too. Now look at the H2 Hummer and the KJ, this is what you get when truck makers like Hummer and Jeep choose to be trendy over being functional and embracing their heritage. You get the KJ which which can tackle the Rubicon but still looks like it could be a PT Crusier if you changed the frontend and lowered it and then you have the Hummer H2, i don't mean to break anyones bubble but it is a Suburban. Its is being crafted off of the orginal mommy hauler that used to be capable SUV, the Suburban. So I only say that the KJ should not have round headlight because it is in no way related to the current TJ Wrangler. Now if the Dakar came out in its orginal show form with the Wrangler front end that would be another story since it is very Wrangler.

As for the the comment about me saying there is 10 people that have driven it. I mean that saying from every different set of post on different articles there has to be more than there should be of people that have driven the KJ. I just said that finding it hard to believe all these people had driven it. Mostly basing it on the fact that alot of them say "I have driven the KJ its great it handles like a gem on and off road." There you go my friends that what every one of these people are saying. I don't know about anyone else but if I drove It I would be saying more than most people have about it. I just think most people defend their cause by saying they drove it and it was wonderful.

Also is there anyone else you wish to crucify for not liking the KJ? I may not like it and might not ever like it but the general audience only wishes to undermind everything I say because I am a KJ hating old man or something. You know what "rbarrett" doesn't like it either he say WJ's are better. SWEET MOTHER OF MERCY!?!? Let's get him. Bad rbarrett! You shouldn't like anything but the KJ it is superior to every other Jeep in more ways than your mind can comprehend. Just kidding I thought I would say that because thats what I get. Oh well I love my XJs. There's my 2 cents. I'll go get the cross I'm sure you'll bring the nails. Over and Out. Long live the XJ!!!

Griff- Only Wranglers should have round
headlights, because no other Jeep has had round
headlights before?? Did you forget about the
"original" Jeep station wagons and pickups from
the late'40s - early '60s?

Also, as far as I can recall from these posts,
only one guy (from DC) has worked on the vehicle,
and one other guy has test driven it. That's
hardly 10 people who have test-driven it.

I did just see the Liberty at the Baltimore Auto
Show. It was a pretty basic 4x4 Sport model with
the V-6. It had standard 215/75x16 Wrangler ST
tires, steel wheels, and a 5-speed tranny. And...
like base Wranglers, it had a full-size "temp"
spare tire bolted on the rear.

As I've said before—and will say again—Jeep has
wi

Liberty in a different light. Go to.

http://www.jeepnorthwest.com/photoshopkj.html

A mid size SuV and still no storage? What does
DC have against cargo space? I love my TJ, but
here we have a Yuppie style SUV, and still no
storage except on the roof?

Having just seen the Liberty in person at the Detroit Autoshow I am sorry to say I am still disappointed about it. What bugs me most about it is the cute front end. In my understand it is designed to compete with the RAV4 and the like. The trunk on it is just a bit larger then that of a Wrangler and in no way does it compare with the cargo capacity of an XJ, X-Terra & other Mid-size SUVs. I am sure the IFS will be just as great on/off-road as DC claims it is. But lifting the IFS vehicle is much more complex and a lot more expensive then a solid axle. Over all I think this vehicle will help out DC with it's slow sales but sadly it's design has been focused on the urban yuppies who will at most see a dirt road. I will remain loyal to Wranglers and may be switch over to WJs if the funds allow later on, but KJ no way.

i have test-driven the Liberty and those of you who express concern about its true off-road capablility and it's lack of Jeep heritage, and have NOT driven the vehicle are dead wrong. Sorry to disappoint you XJ folks, but the Liberty will go far and beyond your expectations.

Jeep has always come out with a better product each year in some way. CJ owners hated YJ's and they hated TJ's and on and on. I'm anxious to see how this Liberty compares and its niche both on and off road. There are only a few poeple that use their jeeps off road in a hard manner, we should welcome a new jeep to our market and applaud the Liberty's ability to perform. I am sure of one thing though, we will miss the long lived cherokee.

Does anyone know if Jeep will bring any of the Liberty's to the Jamborees this year. If you do know, what Jamborees would they be attending?

A few years back they brought the all new Grands to the Adirondack Jamboree and really put on quite a show!

Jeep Engineers - and other DC folks - will get their executive leases in mid-march. Also, DC typically sends a fleet to a few car rentals to get immediate customer feedback - as they did with the PT Cruiser.

The KJ will hit your dealership in mid to late June.

It would be great if we could instantly
fast-forward 10 years or so, wouldn't it. Then we
would know whether the Liberty is indeed fish or
foul.

Since that's not possible, why don't we give the
Liberty a fair chance in the marketplace. Jeep's
had a pretty good track record to date. I don't
think they would risk their reputation on a
product that they don't think is a winner.

My gut feeling is 10 years from now, the Liberty
will prove to be a wi

Hey eekraftee, so when you (as a jeep dealer) talked to your customers about the XJ, did you tell them that it is old, not as good as the competitions, a "dinosaur'? I'll bet you didn't. Now that it is being replaced, of course you are going to build up the Liberty, as well you should, for you have seen it in person, thus making you qualified. The story of the Liberty wont be able to be told for years to come, you are no more valild in your praise of the Liberty than are others in their criticism of it, at this point in time, NOBODY knows. And that is the problem.

If the XJ is a dinosaur, call me Fred Flintstone. I bought my new Cherokee in October after comparing it to some of the new SUV's for several reasons, but mostly because it's a tougher vehicle which I expect will last me 150-200,000 miles. Part of the drive train of the Tribute/Escape is from the Taurus, which I have also owned, and I can say it was a good car for about 90,000 miles on regular roads. I'll definitely check out the Liberty, but given the repair record of the Grand Cherokee, I can honestly tell you I'd be more comfortable buying one after they've been making it a few years. From a dealer's standpoint, I'm probably not their favorite customer since I don't buy cars often, but there was plenty about the "dinosaur" I liked, enough to plunk down my cash on a legend that I knew was to be discontinued. Still, I'm not that surprised the XJ is out, God knows the Liberty will have enough competition as it is! My bet is Jeep did it right and it will be a cut above the rest, and if it's as reliable as the XJ, then it's another home run.

I think that the main point of the XJ enthusiats isnt that the KJ is not going to be a good vehicle, but instead that the KJ is in fact replacing the Cherokee. They don't want to see the Cherokee go. The KJ may be great, it looks nice (except that front end), its bigger, and I am sure the ride will be smoother. That's not what is at debate, whats at debate is the fact that they are discontinuing a true legend and replacing it with a vehicle that is designed to compete with the RAV-4's,
V's, and Escape's of the world (tall AWD cars).

KJKen- also, very well put. Now we're starting to
get some comments that are reasonable, and make
sense. Let's give the Liberty a chance folks.

kjrules. Well put! I couldn't have said it better!

Glad to to see that there are finally some
sensible and reasonable comments showing up here,
regarding the Liberty.

Folks, before you banish this vehicle to 4x4 Hell,
why not wait and see what it can do. Initial
reports appear to be very positive.

Bottom line: This is the direction Jeep is headed.
You can vent all you want, but it ain't going to
change a

here is my comment

I think the Liberty may do well. The styling seems okay to me, but the white leather interior seems a bit overdone in a Jeep.

I just can't see this vehicle as a replacement for the Cherokee. Eliminating the Cherokee is a mistake.

The problems that I see for the Liberty, strangely enough, are not the Independent Front Suspension - For now I will "Believe" what Chrysler says about it, that does work ok off road.

No, what bothers me is that early reviews state that the new V6 is merely adequate - Whereas the 4.0 6 in the Cherokee was stellar - almost like a high performance model, with 0-60 times under 9 seconds, and with a manual, around 8 seconds.

So what we lose with the new version is performance? That does not seem far.

The reviews also do not give the new engine high points for refinement. The 4.0 in the old Cherokee was not the quietest, but quite fun to drive.

The Liberty is also faulted for being no standout in the handling department.

The Cherokee (look at the '97 review at Edmunds.com) is considered a very good SUV when it comes to handling, especially when equipped with upcountry suspension.

I am also bothered by the weight of the vehicle, I don't have the Cherokee specs out in front of me but it looks like the Liberty is more than a few pounds heavier.

I guess what bothers me the most about the XJ's impending demise is that for the first time in over 50 years there won't be a Jeep targeted for rugged commercial use. I see many basic XJ's used by railroads, utility companies and other industries as an economical and more nimble alternative to Tahoes and Suburbans. I doubt the KJ will be able to carry on this noble tradition started by the Willys Wagon. What's really sad is that the Willys, the Wagoneer and the Cherokee were all trendsetters. The KJ is a me-too late arrival in a crowded market. I hope the little guy is a winner; it sounds like Jeep engineers did their homework. But I can't help feeling that the 4x4 utility vehicle is regressing into the family station wagon.

Has anyone driven it yet? The writers at Petersen's 4x4 did and they commented that it is more than capable offroad. If any one of you have driven one and have anything to say about it, please do so. If you haven't driven it, please don't bother to write on it's offroad capabilities.

While I understand what the diehards are talking about (my wife talked me into a new Wrangler and it kills me that we got rid of our old warhorse - I'm selling it and finding one like my old one) I think that this vehicle may help D-C keep the line alive. I HATE seeing the wannabees in their cute-utes with their fog lights always on and their brush guards that have never seen a gravel road but somebody has got to sell these things and it might as well be D-C. Those of us in the know will understand that there is a small % of the population that actually WILL go offroad in these things and will be able to survive with the rest of us. We may even win over a few converts!

here is my comment

First off I would like to say if you think the Liberty is so great, chances are the people who like the Liberty, grew up sitting in the back of the parents' 1980's Honda Civic with parents who shunned them to the 4 wheel drive world. I lived, ate, and built Jeeps since I could talk and this is not a Jeep! If fact the only think that remains Jeep is the transfer case and the Jeep tag on the hood, everything else D-C.

As far as V-6's go, why is Chevy going back to it's straight six! A 270hp straight six is going in there new Trailblazer!

Finally some true Jeep fans supporting the Liberty and even some changing their tune as more is revealed. Soon Griff and others like him will eat their words.

I agree with Jeeper. Though I have some concerns/reservations about the Liberty, I am going to give it a chance. Jeep has done a good job through the years of producing bright, innovative designs that the competition strive to copy. Jeep seems to always raise the bar. I'm not gonna complain or place blame on Jeep or its parent until I know all the facts. I won't know all the facts until I've seen one in action.

I'm a little scared that most people here don't remember any of Jeep's past. They have always led the way, why not now?

For all you Jeep enthusiasts who are adamantly opposed to the Liberty:

We live in a world of innovative change. Instead of protesting the inevitable, why not embrace what might be the best performing Jeep ever? Those who have not driven the Liberty have NO idea what they are talking about. When they get behind the wheel, however, they may find themselves pleasantly surprised and feeling a bit silly for making unsupported conclusions and assumptions.
Complaining about a product that is not even out yet is a not only presumptuous, but also unsubstantiated.
If these people can call themselves Loyal Jeep Enthusiasts, then maybe they should give Jeep/DaimlerChrysler a bit more credit and a little less criticism.