i just bought my wife a liberty and i myself own a tj. but to tell you the truth for every person who hates the idea of a softie jeep... there are 50 spoiled rich girls love the idea. and we all know that money talks and i am pretty sure that that is DC's biggest priority.

Are the TJLs (already?) being built in Egypt for sale at DC dealers there? How difficult would the homologation be, as a kit car for example? I suppose we could all chip in to get it done. I live in Europe. If TJL's are being sold individually, through regular dealerships, then I'm headin' to Cairo to take a look. If you have any info, let me know.
Thanks
rick

ScramblerKen, enjoyed your post very much. Im concerened where jeep will end up in say 2010 but even 2015 when my son will be old enough to drive. I have really enjoyed the jeep brand with its heritage and go anywhere attitude. My wife is hooked and yes my child with his powerwheels jeep wrangler, lol. Im just crossing my fingers jeep does not go totally soft on us. I would definetly consider a scrambler as i would like a truck like vehicle but dont want a true truck. we'll just have to wait and see...

here is my comment

My only advice is to hang on to your CJ's, TJ's, YJ's XJ's, etc.

There are plenty of parts out there and if there is an even greater demand for parts, more parts will be produced.

When Jeep has gone totally soft and the 2010 Jeep line up is limited to the Jeep Liberty, Jeep Grand Liberty, Jeep Icon, and Jeep Compass, you will be glad that you kept your current Jeep.

Just look at it this way: There is already a demand for Jeep Grand Wagoneers, and CJ's less than 20 years after they were produced because people feel like they can't get vehicles made like that anymore.

Well ScramblerKen,
I'll suck it up and repair the rest on my own,
because I doubt the aftermarket boys are going
anywhere soon..and in the meantime I'd happily
drive my fiancee's Liberty!
Geez man, You're extremely knowledgable, but
you talk like the voice of doom! I enjoy driving
other vehicles like my former wife's XTerra, my
friends Expedition, etc..
I'm almost 47, I think my TJ will last long enough
for me to enjoy it without a cane and pedal-assists! It's paid for. It may become my secondary
car at some point but I'm sure I could stand to
drive an M-80 (if they ever produce them)or a
Willy's (if that ever shows up)5 days a week

"You drive your TJ, I'll stick with my mint CJ 7 baby!!!!"

If it's mint, you're not doing it right. ;)

My local dealer told me the scrambler will be offered soon. He also hinted that the TJ will be replaced soon. DC really wants to offer a new piece of junk to replace it. How long do I have to buy a new TJ? Before the last Jeep is gone?

thanks for all of your info, comment and input. Have had a CJ5 and am currently driving a '67 Jeepster Conv. Just bought a small x-mas tree farm and am REALLY looking forward to getting a new Scrambler. Kick myself for not getting one of the originals and keeping it up!!! This new Scrambler will be my LAST vehicle!

HOLD ON!
Sorry Bill, the Brute you saw is made by American Expedition Vehicles, and unfortunately, Jeeps
Scrambler looks NOTHING like it.
AEV is an aftermarket outfit that stretches Wranglers, customizes XJ's and Grand Cherokees,
and as I've long said, Chrysler could take some
design cues from them! Safety issues notwithstanding...

here is my comment:
Recently I was at our local Jeep dealer as my wife was shopping for a Liberty. I couldn't help myself so I asked about the future of the new Scramblers. I am an officer of the Scrambler Owners Association & we have been following this on our message board. He stated that the new Scrambler is a definet thing & they have already confirmed it. I asked for any documentation on it & he didn't have any but reiterated that "this is a done deal & they will be coming out next year".

here is my comment: At Camp Jeep 2003 they had prototypes of the new Scrambler and they called it the Brute. They said that it would be out in late 2004.

I believe that ScramblerKen hit every nail squarely on the head. I would like to know what his obviously excellent source of information is.

I think that Chrysler has done a very good job with the TJ and particularly the Rubicon. Frankly, I’m surprised that the Jeep is still around at all. I bought my first Jeep when I was 14 years old. It was my grandfather’s 1951 CJ3A. I’m now getting gray hair and next week I’ll be ordering my fourth Jeep, a 2004 Jeep Rubicon.

Although everyone is entitled to his own opinion, my experience is that like my wonderful wife, Jeeps get a little better with every decade. The truth is that if I still had my grandfather’s CJ3A, I could park it next to the Rubicon and they still look just about the same. What other vehicle could you say that about? (maybe a bicycle). Don’t give up on your marriage during the rocky times, and don’t give up on the Jeep just yet. That little vehicle just keeps hanging in there because the basic design is just so perfectly suited to its intended purpose.

Whether its called an MB, CJ2A, CJ3A, CJ5, CJ7, YJ, TJ or TJL?, its still a true Jeep (They had this very same argument about what a “Real Jeep” is when the CJ5 was dropped, and again when the CJ7 was replaced by the YJ and yet again when the YJ was replaced by the TJ). Maybe the Jeep will still be around when my grandson walks into a Jeep dealership and he buys his first rig. I don’t know about you, but I think that uniquely American moment will be pretty cool (cool is old people speak for, “knarly-dude”).

Sorry for sounding like the voice of Doom, but the future of the Wrangler is in question, and I would hate to see this end. The Jeep engineers could fool us and come up with ways to maintain the classic Wrangler, be as off-road capable, and meet all of the federal government requirements, but current rumors don’t support that theory. On a side note, Jeep has had several pluses in the past years.

The Rubicon edition was a boost for off-roaders, especially those that don’t have the time or skill to customize one of their own. Even if you did not like the Rubicon edition, at least Jeep was recognizing the off-road segment of its buyers.

I also hope Jeep does produce the Scrambler. I think a small pickup would be a great addition to the Jeep line-up, and this vehicle would provide a personal convertible truck that no other manufacturer has. The Liberty has sold well, and brings in customers that probably would have never purchased a Jeep.

For those of you with the talent, skill, money, and equipment to restore classic Jeeps, that is great, and my hats off to you. Unfortunately, you are in a minority, and I think most people lack those abilities or the desire to spend time rebuilding a Jeep. Sadly, there are fewer people doing their own work on cars. If you asked most people today to change their oil, they ask, “Where is the nearest Jiffy Lube?”

Thanks OR Bruce for pointing out about the EPA mandate on the change in diesel fuel requirement. I still think it is a hard sell to get US buyers to switch to diesel power-plants, but if the price of regular fuel becomes dramatically higher than diesel, we might see a big change.

My main point is that we are potentially nearing an end of an era. I hope Jeep does not cheapen us by just producing a ‘softie’ Wrangler, and they use their abilities to continue the Jeep heritage. Time will tell.

Hell I wish I'd kept my old YJ!! I bought it
in 86, and had to give it up in 95 when my first
daughter came along!
The guy who ended up with it wouldn't even
answer my calls about buying it back in 99!

FYI, diesel fans, the EPA has mandated that diesel contain no more than 15 ppm of sulfur in 2006, which will make US diesel fuel cleaner than European. I think this will bring a proliferation of diesels, assuming the public responds. Supposedly, much of the diesel exhaust odor will vanish, but I'll believe it when I don't smell it. I like the torque and fuel economy, but will wait and see. Meanwhile, I still love the old (ancient?) 4 liter six in our WJ, as I loved it in our XJs.

It's mint because I just finished a frame up restoration! Regarding parts, there are so many parts available for CJ's you can basically build your own now from scratch. Barring a nuclear war, there will never be a shortage of parts for CJ!

A few additional comments:

Rich, I remember the CJ6, and unfortunately, in today’s safety conscious world, it would be difficult for Jeep to produce passenger seating in a convertible vehicle of that style. I’m surprised we have convertibles at all. I’m also not advocating retrofitting a back seat, but my point is that don’t expect Jeep to produce the stretched TJ with a back seat.

For XJGary, I doubt we will see anything radical in the TJL. The TJ is nearing its end-of-life period, and the TJL is a low cost way to pump in some sales before the next generation Wrangler hits the streets.

As a side note, the TJL in Egypt is offered with a 4-cyl diesel, but in reality, unless the US changes the type of Diesel fuel offered, I don’t see diesel engines making a big dent in the market. In Europe, the diesel fuel is a different formula and is a cleaner fuel. Many of the diesel-powered vehicles sold in Europe would have to be modified to run on the diesel fuel offered in the US. The version for the Liberty is different than the one exported. Even Jeep is not counting too big on this engine as they are only going to produce 5,000 Liberties with the Diesel engine for the US.

As far as the comment regarding sticking with your CJ, YJ, or TJ, that is fine, but what do you do in the future? Someday, a soccer Mom driving her Ford Excursion plows into your vehicle and the insurance company gives you $500 and tows it away. In addition, what happens when 3rd party vendors decide there is no longer a market to make parts and accessories for old CJ, YJ, and TJs?

If they build the TJL it would be great to have the turbo diesel as an option.

You drive your TJ, I'll stick with my mint CJ 7 baby!!!!

Unfortunately this all sounds horrible and inevitable! Yes, the Dakar may be too close to the Liberty, but the Liberty was supposed to replace the Cherokee, not the Wrangler. What happened to the company that created the CJ6?
Everyone seems to forget that vehicle, basically
an extended CJ5 or Cj7....as opposed to retro-fitting a Scrambler with seats.
Guess I'll be driving my TJ til they pull my
rotting corpse from the seat,and slap me in the home!

In my talks with several of the Jeep dealers in my area, none have been given any ‘official’ word on the Scrambler. The dealers say there will be a Scrambler, but most of their info has been based on the info leak provided by the head of Jeep global sales and the leader of the Union in Toledo. This is not surprising as the dealers only ‘officially’ knew about the Jeep Liberty one week before they arrived in show rooms.

My guess is since the TJL is now in production in Egypt, the bulk of the engineering is done. Since this vehicle made it to production, engineering and production design costs are paid for. Since the plan is to make the Scrambler at a low cost, I suspect if we do get the Scrambler (or what ever they decide to call it), it will be based on the TJL.

The TJL is slightly different than the model shown at Camp Jeep a few years ago. The hard top changed, and they added a roll bar. Of the photos I’ve seen, when they show the top removed, they never show a soft top in its place. It might be that Jeep plans to only sell the hard top version and let third parties create an after-market soft top. I also suspect to keep the costs down, Jeep might base the unit on the ‘Sport’ model, and hence only a six cylinder power plant will be offered. I suspect most of the options available for the ‘Sport’ will be available to the Scrambler, but there will probably not be a ‘Rubicon’ version. With only offering 20,000 units, I suspect options and choices will be limited.

Since the TJL has no real competition, and it would help keep the old Toledo plant busy by adding some work for the employees, I suspect this vehicle will be built. Don’t expect there to be a lot of advertisement or even too many in showrooms. My guess is that most will be special orders.

In addition, don’t look for a 4-door version (aka the Dakar), or a back seat being offered. Jeep can offer a pickup truck with little new safety issues, but once they put a back seat in the unit, then there are new rules they have to meet. The original Scrambler was never ‘factory’ produced with a back seat, but owners quickly learned how to add one in. As far as the Dakar, since the Liberty sells well, why build a vehicle that is so similar? (Yeah, I know, the Liberty is not as off-road capable as the Dakar, but size and cost are so close that DC management is not going to approve this).

As far as the future goes for the Wrangler, 2007 looks like the next milestone. Most of this is due to safety requirements. Some years back, Congress passed rules for vehicles to meet side impact safety rules to protect passengers. This law basically requires vehicles to have side air bags. If you notice, many new cars are either including or offering side/door air bags.

Currently, the Wrangler can not be fitted with side air bags. One of the reasons to redesign the YJ was to accommodate front air bags. It was easier to re-design the whole car then try to retro-fit air bags into the YJ.

Originally this new safety requirement was slated for 2005 model year, but lobbying by the automakers has pushed this back. It looks like model year 2007 is now the date, hence the requirement for Jeep to come out with a re-designed Wrangler.

Sadly, rumor has it that the fold-down windshield and removable doors will have to go to meet other safety requirements. In addition, Jeep is pressured to get better mileage, so changing the body to be more aerodynamic are probably in the works.

The other thought has been to produce 2 Wrangler types of vehicles. One would be similar to the current Wrangler with solid axles and the other is a more ‘softie’ type that would offer such things as power windows and other creature comforts to make ‘Barbie’ happy. The ‘softie’ is basically the Compass, but with some major body design changes. My fear is that DC said something like this before. Remember when we were first told about the Liberty? The Cherokee was going to be produced for a few more years when the Liberty came out, and DC quickly changed that.

Other rumor info: Jeep is probably not going to get their own version of the M80 (remember the mini Dodge Power Wagon truck?). The M80 looks like it is being scrapped due to economic reasons. A V6 in the Wrangler? Probably not until the redesign in 2007. A V8 in the Wrangler? Probably not – think of the lawsuits if someone gets hurt. They just don’t sell enough Wranglers to make up for the lawsuits.

Basically, the Wrangler will probably remain unchanged until model year 2007. A new Grand Cherokee makeover with a stretched version (Grand Wagoneer?) with an extra row of seats is likely for model year 2006. This model will likely drop the I-6 for the V6 as the base engine. This leads the way to ramp down production of the I-6 engine. DC has been wanting to reduce the number of engines produced, and the old I-6 has been on the hit list for some time. Meeting emission standards is also making it tough on this classic engine design.

In fairness to Jeep management, changes to vehicles are controlled by safety regulations, costs, and consumer wants. Read More...

At Camp Jeep this year they told us during Jeep 101 that the Scrambler would be in the lots in July, 2004.