OEM Steering arm lower coupler and new gear box

[JeepDave]

Hey folks, I'm working on replacing my power steering pump and gear box and have run into a snag. The gear box I purchased doesn't appear to be compatible with the lower steering shaft coupling (OEM). The specs for the gear box are below:

Input shaft spline count: 31 + Flat & Notch
Input shaft diameter: .88"

I tried to spread the opening of the coupling but it still didn't receive the shaft (too narrow) then I noticed how worn the splines were and decided to replace it completely. The spring turned out to be broken too so I guess it's good I kept digging

Here's the link to the part I purchased from AAP: https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/cardone-remanufactured-power-steering-gear-27-7521/10394255-P (look at specs).

Do I need a coupling that has 31 splines or something with less because of the flat portion of the shaft? Lots of sites sell the lower coupler kit and they all supposedly "fit" my Jeep but Quadratec said their coupler was something like .71" with 27 splines, or something to that effect.

 

[mriplaybass]

It's been awhile since I worked on a steering shaft, but if I recall correctly, you have to extrapolate the spline count for the flat spot on the shaft. I did mine by finding the middle of the shaft, then counting the number of splines then multiply it by 2. If you try to order a part by only counting the number of splines that mate up with the shaft, you will have the wrong count.

 

[jp360cj]

I think MrBass is correct on the spline counts..the couplers are fully splined, so they list as having more splines than the input shaft with the flat spot.

What's the diameter of the input shaft on your old steering box? It sounds like you probably have a steering box from a FSJ. They use the same 3/4" coupling as the CJ manual steering boxes. CJ power steering boxes use a 13/16" coupling. The FSJ boxes are also variable rate, which IMO offers a much better driving experience than the single rate CJ boxes.

You have a few choices....you can either get a CJ power steering coupling or return the box and get a FSJ box (wagoneer, J10, J20). You'll also want to check the fittings on your old box. Anything '79 and older will have SAE flare fittings and anything '80 and newer will be metric O-ring fittings. It will make your life easier if you keep them matched up.

 

[JeepDave]

It's been awhile since I worked on a steering shaft, but if I recall correctly, you have to extrapolate the spline count for the flat spot on the shaft. I did mine by finding the middle of the shaft, then counting the number of splines then multiply it by 2. If you try to order a part by only counting the number of splines that mate up with the shaft, you will have the wrong count.

Thanks very much for posting Bass, I'll give this a go this weekend. Not sure why couplings would have splines all the way around when there's a flat spot on the gear box shaft.

 

[JeepDave]

I think MrBass is correct on the spline counts..the couplers are fully splined, so they list as having more splines than the input shaft with the flat spot.

What's the diameter of the input shaft on your old steering box? It sounds like you probably have a steering box from a FSJ. They use the same 3/4" coupling as the CJ manual steering boxes. CJ power steering boxes use a 13/16" coupling. The FSJ boxes are also variable rate, which IMO offers a much better driving experience than the single rate CJ boxes.

You have a few choices....you can either get a CJ power steering coupling or return the box and get a FSJ box (wagoneer, J10, J20). You'll also want to check the fittings on your old box. Anything '79 and older will have SAE flare fittings and anything '80 and newer will be metric O-ring fittings. It will make your life easier if you keep them matched up.

Thank you for your insights JP. I'm going to do some more homework on the part I purchased and hopefully I can find a coupling that fits or I'll return the damn thing and purchase one that fits a full size Jeep (gear box and coupler).

As for my old gear box, I made a rookie mistake and returned the core so I no longer have it to measure the input shaft. Foolish me thought that all these pieces would fit together with no problem. Man I regret that now...

What's more, I'll bet my OEM Pitman Arm will need to be replaced as I'm sure it doesn't fit the new output shaft. DAMN, DAMN, DAMN!!!

 

[mriplaybass]

Thanks very much for posting Bass, I'll give this a go this weekend. Not sure why couplings would have splines all the way around when there's a flat spot on the gear box shaft.

Because the couplings will fit more shafts than just the one with the flat spot if there are no splines where the shaft is flat. Someone actually thought about this ahead of time when designing the coupling!

 

[JeepDave]

After searching and searching and searching I can't find a rag joint that'll fit the steering box I purchased so I'm going to return it and purchase this one as there seem to be a ton of couplers that should be compatible...

https://www.pepboys.com/a1-cardone-... TRUCK/CJ Series JEEP/V8-304 5.0L?quantity=1

Specs:

Output shaft spline count: 32
Output shaft diameter: 1.25
Outlet port size: 16mm X 1.5
Input shaft type: Splined
Input shaft spline count: 26
Input shaft diameter: 0.72
Inlet port size: 18mm X 1.5


My question as I continue to noodle this repair, how many splines does the coupler need in order to be compatible? I've seen couplers with .7 ID and assume that'll squeeze over a .72 ID, it's the number of splines I haven't figured out yet.

I also need to count the spines on my OEM Pitman Arm. My guess is I'll have to purchase a new PA as well...

Thoughts, comments, donations

 

[jp360cj]

This is getting more complicated than it needs to be...

I doubt you'll find a rag joint fit the OEM steering shaft anyway. To my knowledge, your only options for the OEM shaft are the 3/4" coupling (for CJ manual steering) and 13/16" (for CJ power steering). The 3/4" coupling also fits the FSJ power steering boxes.

Did you measure the input of the box you bought? Did you try to put a CJ power steering coupler on it? Rock Auto lists the input shaft at 0.80", not 0.88" like Advance Auto. The 0.80" should be correct. I suspect a typo on AA's website.

What is this Pep Boys box supposed to fit? Whatever it is, it's for a 1980 and newer because it has metric fittings. You need to look at your lines and figure out what you have now. If you have metric fittings, then a newer box is what you will want. If you have SAE fittings, then you will either need an older box with matching fittings, or you'll have to get new lines. For the pressure side, that means a custom line, adapter on the steering box, or changing the fitting on the box.

Figure out what lines you have, what features you want in the box (big bore, small bore, fixed or variable rate) and I can tell you what box and coupling to get. But my recommendation would be a Waggy/J10 box with CJ manual coupler unless you feel like you need more power from a big bore box. Year of the box will depend on which lines you have.

 

[hagar]

To my knowledge, all the Jeep power steering gear boxes use the larger diameter coupler.
I have a 1973 Wagoneer power steering gear on my Jeep and it used the larger power steering coupler.
I can't speak for all the other odd ball Saginaw boxes out there.

 

[JeepDave]

This is getting more complicated than it needs to be...

I doubt you'll find a rag joint fit the OEM steering shaft anyway. To my knowledge, your only options for the OEM shaft are the 3/4" coupling (for CJ manual steering) and 13/16" (for CJ power steering). The 3/4" coupling also fits the FSJ power steering boxes.

Did you measure the input of the box you bought? Did you try to put a CJ power steering coupler on it? Rock Auto lists the input shaft at 0.80", not 0.88" like Advance Auto. The 0.80" should be correct. I suspect a typo on AA's website.

What is this Pep Boys box supposed to fit? Whatever it is, it's for a 1980 and newer because it has metric fittings. You need to look at your lines and figure out what you have now. If you have metric fittings, then a newer box is what you will want. If you have SAE fittings, then you will either need an older box with matching fittings, or you'll have to get new lines. For the pressure side, that means a custom line, adapter on the steering box, or changing the fitting on the box.

Figure out what lines you have, what features you want in the box (big bore, small bore, fixed or variable rate) and I can tell you what box and coupling to get. But my recommendation would be a Waggy/J10 box with CJ manual coupler unless you feel like you need more power from a big bore box. Year of the box will depend on which lines you have.

Awesome man, yes this is getting FAR too complicated (for me at least). I just want the correct parts so I can put everything back together and drive my rig – even if it’s only 25degrees out 

I saw that variable offers a better drive. The box I have now has .8 ID with 31 splines + flat spot. Not opposed to returning it if there’s something that’ll work better (i.e., I can find a coupling that fits!!!!). As for my lines, I have SAE fittings and want to keep them - not desire to mod the fittings on a 1980+ box. I have power steering; from what I’ve seen on various sites they differentiate between no-PS and PS (for couplings). I still have OEM pitman arm but if I need to purchase a new that’s fine as they aren’t very expensive.

As for power, I’m not looking to make this a trail ride so if you think Waggy/J10 would be my best bet I trust your judgement. At some point I’m going to install a lift as the PO put 33s on it and I need a bit more clearance (2.5" lift), not sure if that’s a factor in any of this.

I REALLY appreciate your help on this – made my night when I told my wife that I’m actually going to be able to move forward on this project

 

[RiverandSand]

I went through the steering debacle with mine, it came with an unknown ps box which leaked badly. I think it came from GM truck nothing fit except the hydro lines. A PO had hacked in a rag style coupler which hit the frame and welded crooked. I ripped it all out and put in a H1 box and a Omix HD PS steering shaft.
The things I learned; rag style couplers never came on a 80s CJ, bell type only. Hummer H1 box fits without any mods, but are metric and getting harder to find. Omix HD shaft is anything but HD does fit though, probably will buy a Borgensen shaft at some point. 13/16 input shaft 32 splines. My BDS spring package came with a dropped pitman arm which I used.
Do a search for H1 steering box install and you will find a wealth of info not just on the H1 box but the J20 box too.

 

[jp360cj]

I saw that variable offers a better drive. The box I have now has .8 ID with 31 splines + flat spot. Not opposed to returning it if there’s something that’ll work better (i.e., I can find a coupling that fits!!!!). As for my lines, I have SAE fittings and want to keep them - not desire to mod the fittings on a 1980+ box. I have power steering; from what I’ve seen on various sites they differentiate between no-PS and PS (for couplings). I still have OEM pitman arm but if I need to purchase a new that’s fine as they aren’t very expensive.



As for power, I’m not looking to make this a trail ride so if you think Waggy/J10 would be my best bet I trust your judgement. At some point I’m going to install a lift as the PO put 33s on it and I need a bit more clearance (2.5" lift), not sure if that’s a factor in any of this.

I personally prefer the way the variable rate drives. It's less sensitive on the road and not as twitchy as the OEM CJ boxes.

If the box you have now has SAE then you can just get a CJ power steering coupling.

If it were me, I would return it, and get a box for a 78 Wagoneer and a CJ manual steering coupling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[splyn]

I think MrBass is correct on the spline counts..the couplers are fully splined, so they list as having more splines than the input shaft with the flat spot.

What's the diameter of the input shaft on your old steering box? It sounds like you probably have a steering box from a FSJ. They use the same 3/4" coupling as the CJ manual steering boxes. CJ power steering boxes use a 13/16" coupling. The FSJ boxes are also variable rate, which IMO offers a much better driving experience than the single rate CJ boxes.

The power steering box on my 1980 CJ7 was leaking badly (and by the looks of the gunk build up, the PO did nothing to fix it for years). I was hoping to swap in a J20 box for the variable rate for better highway handling. However, the J20 box i got from NAPA doesnt fit the manual steering coupling i purchased. I looked at the AutoZone website and The spline counts reported match the spline counts my power and manual steering couplings so i believe their specs are accurate. Researching input diameter sizes and spline counts for supposedly compatible boxes, i find no evidence that the FSJ boxes would ever fit the manual coupling. I checked various years but still no luck. Am i missing something?

1980 CJ7 Manual Steering: Input Shaft Spline Count: 34
1980 J20: Input Shaft Spline Count: 26
1980 Wagoneer: Input Shaft Spline Count: 26

It does appear the the H1 box is a direct fit upgrade for a CJ with power steering.
1980 CJ7 Power Steering: Input Shaft Spline Count: 32
2002 H1: Input Shaft Spline Count: 32

 

[jp360cj]

The power steering box on my 1980 CJ7 was leaking badly (and by the looks of the gunk build up, the PO did nothing to fix it for years). I was hoping to swap in a J20 box for the variable rate for better highway handling. However, the J20 box i got from NAPA doesnt fit the manual steering coupling i purchased. I looked at the AutoZone website and The spline counts reported match the spline counts my power and manual steering couplings so i believe their specs are accurate. Researching input diameter sizes and spline counts for supposedly compatible boxes, i find no evidence that the FSJ boxes would ever fit the manual coupling. I checked various years but still no luck. Am i missing something?

1980 CJ7 Manual Steering: Input Shaft Spline Count: 34
1980 J20: Input Shaft Spline Count: 26
1980 Wagoneer: Input Shaft Spline Count: 26

It does appear the the H1 box is a direct fit upgrade for a CJ with power steering.
1980 CJ7 Power Steering: Input Shaft Spline Count: 32
2002 H1: Input Shaft Spline Count: 32

The steering gear inputs have a flat spot and aren't fully splined. This is why there are discrepancies on the spline count and is a poor way to judge the fitment of the couplings. It's been a while since I looked a CJ manual box, but maybe the manual box has a smaller flat spot. But both the CJ manual and CJ power couplings have 36 splines (per Flaming River specs). The differnce is the diamenter of the input shaft.

I pulled the steering off of a Grand Waggy (~85-ish IIRC) for my power steering swap. Cut the nipple off and my manual shaft fit perfectly. Also, best I can tell, the '80+ J20 came with the exact power steering box as the '80+ J10 & SJ, not advantage to the J20 in those years like in the mid/late 70s.

 

[splyn]

The steering gear inputs have a flat spot and aren't fully splined. This is why there are discrepancies on the spline count and is a poor way to judge the fitment of the couplings. It's been a while since I looked a CJ manual box, but maybe the manual box has a smaller flat spot. But both the CJ manual and CJ power couplings have 36 splines (per Flaming River specs). The differnce is the diamenter of the input shaft.

I pulled the steering off of a Grand Waggy (~85-ish IIRC) for my power steering swap. Cut the nipple off and my manual shaft fit perfectly. Also, best I can tell, the '80+ J20 came with the exact power steering box as the '80+ J10 & SJ, not advantage to the J20 in those years like in the mid/late 70s.

It turns out the Omix bell coupling I got is a POS. Spline count is way off, splines are barely cut into the housing, much thinner material, etc. I did spend some time counting the splines and extrapolating for the flat, ad it seems the data I found was inconsistent. Some counts did not include the flat, while others did. To eliminate problems with bell couplings and finding parts that fit, I ordered up a Borgeson shaft. At least I know if there is a problem with fit, they will work with me to get it taken care of.

 

[jp360cj]

Some counts did not include the flat, while others did.

I had the same experience. From what I have seen, the best gauge for the Saginaw input shafts and couplings is the diameter, not the spline count.

 

[mtnwhlr]

It turns out the Omix bell coupling I got is a POS. Spline count is way off, splines are barely cut into the housing, much thinner material, etc.

Just more proof we need to stop wasting our hard earned $ on their . Maybe if there sales drop they will figure it out. I doubt it but how knows.