Diesel 4BT Voices, ideas, opinions needed!!!

Diesel 4BT Voices, ideas, opinions needed!!!
S

Starfirehover

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Location
North Highlands, Kalifornia
Vehicle(s)
1982 CJ-7. 258 inline 6 cyl.
Ok folks.. My 1982 CJ7 has been stuck on blocks in the garage for the last 7 plus years.... She was NOT properly stored because I broke my back just after I got her torn down.. For the last 3 or 4 weeks My Fiance and I have been discussing what kind of restoration and/or modification we want to do with the CJ.
Digging in the past few days has revealed item after item that needs to be rebuilt, replaced, and/or upgraded.... steering, brakes, suspension, carburetor, fuel pump, almost all the electrical wiring.....and more.. So... We have decided to take the leap, go nuts, and are hunting for a 4BT turbo diesel that we can replace the 258 with.
My first question is.....
#1 What is a 1982 258 "complete" engine worth if I sell it in one piece? it has less that 1000 miles on it since its so called rebuild.
#2 Has anyone in The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia done this? what kind of DMV paperwork and BS did you need to deal with to get it licensed?
#3 does anyone know what it takes to mate a 4BT to the stock tranny? or should we be looking at a new transmission as well?
( no I don't know what transmission the CJ has, other than its a 5 speed, last time I worked on it was 2003... I will be figuring all that out in the next few weeks.)

Thats it for now, but I fully expect to have a TON of questions as we get further into this... And yes, I will be posting pictures as the project moves along... ;-)
Oh, and anyone in the Sacramento area that is interested in stopping by and talking "Jeep" is more than welcome to...
 
Well, I love the idea of a diesel in a Jeep. The 4bt is a good one, but it could cause issues in a weaker frame. First and foremost, you are going to want to beef that frame up. Second, you should have a T5 trans, which is an aluminum paperweight. The 4BT will destroy it, no matter how nice you are to it. Being that you are using a 7, consider using an auto trans, or check out Novak and see what they have available. Most of the 4BT's you will find come out of the bread trucks, and are mated to a turbo 350 trans. You will probably need to talk to someone at the emissions dept for your state before you purchase anything, hopefully someone else on here will be more in tune with the California laws (I am not). If you decide to do it, post up some pics, I think it would be great.
 
Howdy there, Mind if I respond with dif. point of veiw?
1. If you have a solid low mileage engine why not keep it and upgrade it to Mopar MPI? Yes expensive but only a fraction of what your talking about and it could be running again in a week, your 258 will run like you can't imagine i guarantee it.
2. Ca. DMV is fully streamlined with underhood emissions decals and carb executive order #.
3. If that does not sound good to you the check advance adapters to see whats available to mate up with your trans.
It sounds like you have a lot of issues to deal with and your engine is one of it's good points.
My 2cents
 
From what I have heard/seen/read, the 4BT, while a great engine on paper, is noisy, underpowered, and not a great street engine. Off-road, if you can handle the noise and vibrations it might be OK. But thats just what I've read.
One of the trade rags featured a CJ with a 4BT in it, and they weren't real impressed with the engine, but really liked the CJ.
Seems to me that you are going nuts when you don't need to. Not to be nosy, but can you handle the fabrication and man-hours of work it would take (don't answer that out loud)? I know I have a weak back (but nowhere near broken!) and I have a heck of a time bending over the frame or fenders for any length of time.
I'm not doubting you can do it, I just don't want to see ya get it tore down even farther and realize that it is beyond what you can or want to do.
I'd do what it takes to make it run again, then make a decision on going all out with it. But thats just me...
 
1st off, thanks for the input...
Going down the list...


CJKrawler : Thank you. We are aiming for a 4BT, or a 6BT, whichever we find in our budget first.
The frame IS going to receive some beefing up, just not sure where/how yet until we get the engine.
We have been debating the auto transmission back and forth for the last week, and have yet to come to a conclusion on that, but your input is very welcome...

Sasquach : Given the absolutely HORRIBLE job the shop did on every other part of the CJ they touched, there is some serious concern about how well they did on the engine itself. At this point, our plan is to get the CJ back up and running with the 258 first, then begin our hunt for a 4BT or (possibly) 6BT engine.

Old Dog : thank you! that site is going to help us a lot with this...

mylittlecj5 : Speed isn't our concern with this Jeep. My days of racing are long past, and now we are more interested in crawling around. As long as we can get to 65mph, we are happy. Add in the possibility of 40 mpg, and we are VERY happy... The fabrication issue has been haunting our discussions these past 3 or 4 weeks. I kinda have an advantage in that I work from home, so I can break the jobs up into little parts spread throughout the day instead of trying to get everything done at once. And yes, we are going to get her running again, while we are saving (and finding) the right Diesel engine.

And here are some photos from today, as more junk was removed from around her.
 
For the frame, I might suggest: FP300 1972-86 CJ's Frame Plates - Front Pair

I just got done welding mine on this last weekend. They're good heavy duty 3/16" plate and add a lot of heft to the factory frame. They should hold up to my 401 just fine. I was impressed with how well all the holes and everything lined up on them. As I was putting mine in, I bolted up the motor mounts and had one or two other bolts in keeping it lined up. Everything still lines up. Motor mounts, shock mount holes, even the big holes in the front that my WARN winch mount and MORE shackle reversal brackets bolt to. Granted, it's a lot easier when you're doing it with the frame by itself and you can flip it over so you don't have to weld upside down.

frontplatebottom.jpg
 
You mention looking for a 6BT also, I personally would shy away from that. At 700lbs, the 4bt is already pretty heavy, and the 6bt will be a frame twister on the small frame of a CJ. Also, don't expect over 30 mpg's, and 25 will probably be a safe guess. You will get a significant increase over the 258. Those are just mt thoughts on it.

I have never heard of anyone saying the 4bt is underpowered, but it is noisy, and sounds cool as can be in my opinion. Good luck, this is a major change, but anything can be done given enough time.
 
CJKrawler : I think the only reason the 6BT is still in the running is that we are finding it for the same cost+shipping as the 4BT. Add in knowing we are already going to have to do some serious beefing up of the frame, and choosing it is no longer so far out in left field.
However... the choice of a 4BT does (at this point) seam overall like a better idea. BUT a powerfull motivator is that my fiance prefers the sound of the 6BT.... and I want to keep her solidly "For" this project. :cool:
Side note, we had also (briefly) debated a Ford 6.0 powerstroke, only because that is what is in my daily driver F-250... Being that the logic behind that particular choice is REALLY fuzzy, we dropped it...

Our 40mpg estimate comes from 2 people that have 4BT engines in their vehicles.. Although, neither one of them is a CJ, so......
Yeah, its probably wish full thinking.

derf: I had my eye on those, but had been told that they were a pain to install. It sounds like you didn't have much trouble, so i will be giving them a second look. Thank you.
 
Starfirehover said:
derf: I had my eye on those, but had been told that they were a pain to install. It sounds like you didn't have much trouble, so i will be giving them a second look. Thank you.
Click to expand...

The only reason they're easy to install is because the body tub is not on the frame. I'm not sure if I would have done the mod if I wasn't doing a frame-off build.
 
Some specifications:

Diesel engines that were available from the factory in various Jeeps or CJ's over the years:

1984-1986 Renault 2.1L 126 turbo diesel, also available in a non-turbo version, think France (mostly found in XJ's, MJ in 86, some CJ's were mostly export). Turbocharged Specifications: 85 hp (63 kW) at 3,750 rpm, 132 lb⋅ft (179 N⋅m) at 2,750 rpm. Weight 331 pounds (150 kg)

Nissan SD-33/Minsei Diesel Industries, Ltd. 3.3L (mostly found in CJ-10 tugs). Specifications: Inline-6, 3.2L/198.02 cu in (3245 cc), 70 kW (95 PS, 94 HP) and 220 Nm (22.4 kg-m; 162 ft-lb) of torque, firing order 1-4-2-6-3-5, turbo & non-turbo models exist. Many had 24 volt electrical systems for military and Oz markets depending on year and in 1983 they were revised to use a screw-on oil filter instead of the"toilet-paper" roll type. Injector pump is a licensed to Japan version of Bosch design.

It is rare and difficult to get parts for either of the above engines today in an average autoparts store here in the US.

The Nissan would require a custom machined adapter to fit any late-model overdrive transmission of any popularity. I think it had an SAE-4 industrial pattern on the block and an adapter to the transmission AMC was using on them.

RR

An update for people searching this thread and wanting more info.
 
For more reference information:

Here's a link to a site worth checking out that was an offshoot from the original Yahoo diesel swaps group. The site has plenty of information on swapping a diesel into Jeeps and just about anything that has wheels:

https://www.4btswaps.com/

Here you will find several different CJ's of various years and types that have a 4BT swapped in, Chevy, Ford, Dodge and lots of other rigs with different diesels in them.

The transmission reference sections are good as to what is strong enough and compatible with a diesel conversions with recommendations on transmission/axle ratios for best MPG's.

RR

Even more information for those searching on diesel's in Jeep CJ's.
 
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