Transfer case mounting help needed.

[daddyusmaximus]

Looking for ideas for my first major project. I need to get the t-case in my CJ5 back up where it belongs. The builder lowered the *** end of the engine, and now the t-case too low. It may have worked for him on the sand dunes, but it won't work for me on trails through the woods. Looking for ideas to fix this mess. T-case is a Dana 20 behind a Chrysler 360 and Torqueflite 727. I also have to figure out a new place for the forward mounts to the axle wrap bars to mount, if I keep them.

This is the mess I need to fix. The t-case looks to be about 7 or 8 inches too low. Help please.

 

[Peanut Butter]

I would say you have some major work ahead of you with this one. To start with look at the engine mounts and make sure they are similar to the OEM mounts jeep used. By that I mean angle and height. The transmission mount is next. It will need to be raised. I would suggest ditching the current mount with a tubular mount or at least cut the existing mount to raise the transmission. Not the transfer case will follow the transmission. All that you will need to do is fab some type on mount to stabilize it and give a little support. Don't forget the rubber or poly bushings on all of these mounts. That will help dampen the vibration from the engine. Might see if anybody has a diagram of the OEM transfer case mount. I'm thinking all of that was part of the skid plate. :dunno: On my Jeep with the Quadratrac (I believe a much heavier TC than yours) the transmission mount supports everything. No matter what, I think you got a mess on your hands. When people make custom modifications to their Jeeps, it may be good for them, but it can be a big problem for the next guy. Good engineering and common sense would have been a big help here.


By-the-way, are you planning some 35's maybe. You have a very large lift for a CJ5.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

My mounts are the same. One on each side of the engine, and one in the rear at the t-case. If I could find a factory Dana 20 skidplate mount I'd use that, it just would be a bit further back.

 

[Hedgehog]

Well, the cross member above the transmission needs to go. What would those bars be called? Torsion bars or links or something similar to keep the rear end in place. I'm sure they were there to keep things straight. You will likely need to lower the CJ to keep the thing safe. ..... on further inspection, the welded in cross member could be removed and a set of short attaching points could be fabricated to attach closer to the frame. With the member removed the drive train could be brought back up to where it is supposed to be. The front mounts might to be rotated up where the engine is sitting properly in the frame.

Then there is the exhaust running in the wheel wells.

Other than being to low, how does the thing run and drive? Any problems there?

 

[HackFabrication]

Replied on the other forum:

The PO probably dropped the transfer case because of the automatic transmission swap. And even though the TF727 is a short automatic, it is way longer than a T-150 or T18 manual transmission. dropping the transfer case and the rear of the engine, would help ease the driveshaft angle, that would be rather severe if the transfer case was mounted anywhere near stock position. However, changing the angle of the drive line, also changed the front driveshaft angle too.

How to fix? There isn't going to be an easy fix, IMO. The increased length of the overall drive line is going to cause problems. Perhaps going to a double Carden set up on the rear driveshaft will help if you raise the transfer case. But you're going to have to rip everything out from under the Jeep and start taking measurements.

And I'm not even going to venture an opinion on how the SOA was done without knowing how the Jeep drives in it's present configuration.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Runs like a raped ape. Young kid that owned it used to go blasting around in the sand dunes with it. I'm looking to cruise around, go on trails through the woods and take it camping. For my kind of slow wheeling, I may not even need to worry about keeping the axle wrap torque bars. Hoping like hell to be able to do a coilover setup on it in a year or so anyway. Either way SOA or coilover, that t-case needs to come up.

I like the height of it. It's on 33s and has plenty room for 35s easy, maybe even 37s, but the price jumps up real big with 37s. Haven't ruled them out yet, and it won't kill me to trim the wheel well openings. Problem is 37 will make it too tall for the garage door.

The full width truck axles also make it pretty stable. Looks a little goofy with the little 33s sticking out, but the 35s or 37s would cure that.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Replied on the other forum:

The PO probably dropped the transfer case because of the automatic transmission swap. And even though the TF727 is a short automatic, it is way longer than a T-150 or T18 manual transmission. dropping the transfer case and the rear of the engine, would help ease the driveshaft angle, that would be rather severe if the transfer case was mounted anywhere near stock position. However, changing the angle of the drive line, also changed the front driveshaft angle too.

How to fix? There isn't going to be an easy fix, IMO. The increased length of the overall drive line is going to cause problems. Perhaps going to a double Carden set up on the rear driveshaft will help if you raise the transfer case. But you're going to have to rip everything out from under the Jeep and start taking measurements.

And I'm not even going to venture an opinion on how the SOA was done without knowing how the Jeep drives in it's present configuration.

Surprisingly, the damn thing drives nice (for a bouncy little CJ5) except for the steering box having a bit too much play for my liking.

 

[Hedgehog]

Okay, it runs and drives well, you are planning on bigger tires and there is a substantial lift on it already. Exactly how much ground clearance will you actually need? Remember a short vehicle like a CJ5 doesn't need the ground clearance a longer vehicle like a pick up needs. If it works, why not leave it alone until the transfer case height proves it needs to be raised?

Think about what Hack said about replacing the drive shafts.

 

[HackFabrication]

Another option would be replace the Dana 20 with a Dana 300 and a clocking ring. You could rotate the transfer case up. But this is going to (again) create driveshaft angle issues that will need to be resolved.

Not going to be an easy 'fix', but doable.

 

[hagar]

Most, if not all 727s in a CJ require the front driveshaft be a two piece design, angling away from the transmission case, and them back to the front axle.
The pictures don't show that, but be thinking about that modification if you lower the Jeep any.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Most, if not all 727s in a CJ require the front driveshaft be a two piece design, angling away from the transmission case, and them back to the front axle.
The pictures don't show that, but be thinking about that modification if you lower the Jeep any.

I've never heard of this yet, but if you're talking about having it go to a carried bearing, then down to the front axle, I've wondered if that was doable.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Okay, it runs and drives well, you are planning on bigger tires and there is a substantial lift on it already. Exactly how much ground clearance will you actually need? Remember a short vehicle like a CJ5 doesn't need the ground clearance a longer vehicle like a pick up needs. If it works, why not leave it alone until the transfer case height proves it needs to be raised?

Think about what Hack said about replacing the drive shafts.

This photo shows a better view of just how low it hangs down. Despite the SOA lift and 33s, it is probably lower than stock.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

The D/300 t'case 'clocked' up out of the way would be the best choice here.
Don't forget you can put 4:1 gears in the 300(love mine).
With 35's you'll have a great trail/dune rig.
Hope there's a tranny cooler for that auto.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

I bet it's not lower than stock. Some stock transmissions like a T18 hang down quite a bit. Even my stock CJ with a T-15 3 speed has a 1" block to lower the cross member. I guarantee the full size Bronco I had hung down lower than yours does. Measure it and see how much clearance you actually have.

confirm this if you can. It appears that the main thing requiring the transmission to be lower is that welded to the frame cross member above the transmission.

Your front drive shaft is also backwards. Sure it will work, but water/dirt tends to run down the smaller shaft and into the splines. That is bad, it will significantly reduce the life of the driveshaft splines. Hagar is most likely correct and it's backwards to help clear the transmission.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

FWIW: I like the slip splines as high up as possible, to reduce the chance of rock hits.
The water deal is a valid concern.
LG

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Hope there's a tranny cooler for that auto.
LG

 

[daddyusmaximus]

I bet it's not lower than stock. Some stock transmissions like a T18 hang down quite a bit. Even my stock CJ with a T-15 3 speed has a 1" block to lower the cross member. I guarantee the full size Bronco I had hung down lower than yours does. Measure it and see how much clearance you actually have.

Just the way it looks I guess... It has around 13" of clearance on level ground.

confirm this if you can. It appears that the main thing requiring the transmission to be lower is that welded to the frame cross member above the transmission.

Yeah, that is going away for sure. Probably just rework the crossmember to the trans/t-case to get it higher after I get the other one out of the way.

Your front drive shaft is also backwards. Sure it will work, but water/dirt tends to run down the smaller shaft and into the splines. That is bad, it will significantly reduce the life of the driveshaft splines. Hagar is most likely correct and it's backwards to help clear the transmission.

No way it's going in the other way. The transmission pan is real close. Driveshaft does look kinda funky, but I think it was made like that. The slip splines are on the top, and the male part goes up into the short female part. Never seen the likes of it, but there's no water gonna run down in it.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

You may want to put a oil temp gauge on that 'juice' box.


How much spline is inside that housing? Sure don't look like there could be very much at all.

LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Okay, oddly shaped drive shaft. The spline on top is correct. Never seen a shaft like that. Hey if it works.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I mounted the slip-spline end of my DS's at the t'case purposely, to get'em some protection from rocks and road spray.

LG