258 not happy with the Holley.

258 not happy with the Holley.

FrankenJeep78

Jeeper
Posts
30
Thanks
0
Location
South Texas
Vehicle(s)
1978 CJ7, AMC 258ci, 4 speed.
Not sure where I left off but I got the Jeep back together after rebuilding the carb and getting a new distributer module and a new coil.

The Jeep has never been happy with this carburetor but I just get different new problems every time I try something new. When I rebuilt it I found out what it was, a 4 barrel 4160 but I can’t seem to remember the CFM. Talking to a performance shop guy is how I figured everything out so I know he got me the right kit because I brought the carb in. Rebuilt it based off of a very in depth YouTube video but I wouldn’t be surprised if I made some sort of mistake somewhere. It was my first rebuild. I do remember the kit not having the correct jets so I used the next size up. I can get more details if I find where I hid the kit.

Trying to tune it was not normal, getting the best vacuum and running it on that would cause it to spit under load which I quickly fixed by richening it up. I haven’t rechecked it with the vacuum gauge but I tuned it to where it was half a turn richer than any spitting.

The electric choke is broken so I removed it. I had my first real cold weather start a couple days ago. Severe power loss, it would stall putting it in the granny gear and I even got it to spit again. It got better when it got up to temperature which is what I expected. I richened it up another turn on both sides and it’s been running pretty well but I still feel like somethings not right with the power output from where it was before I rebuilt it. I also tried forcing the choke plate closed to run it until it got up to temperature which worked as I expected with the power level. Just another pita to have to open the hood to manipulate the choke but it should be a winter only thing.

Now here’s the thing, I have no idea what my mpg is but I have a pretty good idea that it is bad.

Now here’s the real thing, at idle every several seconds there is a small pop which I think is weak exhaust backfire. No matter my setting, this has been going on since the rebuild. In my initial tuning I had some severe backfires but that’s gone. Under power every now and then I think I get a mild backfire that is audible over the Jeep running without a top on but it’s nothing too loud. Does any of this sound like it’s bad for my poor 258?

Some other info is that I have an electric pump with no recirculation/pressure regulator. However when I set the float level it worked normally. it’s not like the pump was forcing fuel in past what the carb wants. I can check the pressure when I find my gauge that should be with my carb rebuild kit. However my fuel line is definitely a fire waiting to happen based off of reading things here so that will get fixed.

Aside from all this, getting stranded because I used the wrong size electrical part in the ignition switch, and finding out the fuel gauge was grossly off being accurate, I have been a happy little CJ owner.
 
Holley 4160 is a standard pn with varying CFM ratings 450-750CFM

You changed distributor at the same time, so you might want to double check timing before blaming backfires on the carb - should be 8deg BTDC with vacuum advance disconnected and plugged. You can adjust by sound and get it pretty close without a light.

Tuning to maximum vacuum is a guideline, not all engines want to run there.
 
I'm no carburetor expert but IMO a 4 barrel carb is too much carb for our 4.2 engines. An engine can only use so much gasoline.
They came from the factory with 1 barrel or a 2 barrel carb.
 
I'm no carburetor expert but IMO a 4 barrel carb is too much carb for our 4.2 engines. An engine can only use so much gasoline.

They came from the factory with 1 barrel or a 2 barrel carb.
Have to disagree with you.
4 barrel eidelbrock 525cfm (1403) on a 1" riser works like a charm on a 258 if you set it up right.
5 years on mine. Easy rebuilds.

It put the fun back in my ride.

ca0f9c16b0c35cc8b6b7fd2640f6e3d9.jpg0edfd754f8a213433e9e2ba8f0895851.jpgfd71011ef0a044d167216c9202edb479.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Once you have your dizzy tuned (by ear or even better water cup tuned) then I would go back to your initial setup procedure staying as lean as you can without ping/knock.

Throwing it rich is likely to make it worse not better.

With an electric pump and no return I am surprised it works. Pump must be low pressure? Interested to know what your pressure is.

Do you get more popping on a down shift?


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Holley 4160 is a standard pn with varying CFM ratings 450-750CFM

You changed distributor at the same time, so you might want to double check timing before blaming backfires on the carb - should be 8deg BTDC with vacuum advance disconnected and plugged. You can adjust by sound and get it pretty close without a light.

Tuning to maximum vacuum is a guideline, not all engines want to run there.

the distributer is a Mallory ignition unilateral. I changed the Mallory e spark module that craps out when the coil craps out. I did not change the distributer but did change that module and downgraded from a performance coil to a stock coil. Should I check timing again? Getting a light from a guy I know is a pain but doable.
 
Once you have your dizzy tuned (by ear or even better water cup tuned) then I would go back to your initial setup procedure staying as lean as you can without ping/knock.

Throwing it rich is likely to make it worse not better.

With an electric pump and no return I am surprised it works. Pump must be low pressure? Interested to know what your pressure is.

Do you get more popping on a down shift?


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I’ll be sure to come back here with the pump pressure. Also I’m not sure of the backfire. I don’t remember if it’s had a real pop before on the current settings but previously I do recall it making a real backfire once I ease up on the power.
 
Set a cup of water on your fender.
Check your park brake is on.
Shift the transfer case to neutral.
Block your tires.
Start your rig.
Observe the ripple pattern in the cup.
Stop the engine.
Mark your current distributor alignment by scribing a line on the base of the distributor and engine.
Loosen the distributor hold down bolt but leave some resistance on it so the distributor doesn't flop around.
Get a friend to start the engine while you hold the distributor in place.
Slowly, very very very slowly start rotating the distributor in small increments while you watch the ripple pattern in the cup.
If it gets worse (choppy or uneven rings) STOP and rotate back then the other direction.
You will find a "sweet spot" where it sounds right but the ripple pattern, once even and low ripples, will get you spot on. Tighten it. (Carefully as it's hot now).
I haven't used a light for a tune in years.
(Different story if you had removed and replaced your distributor).

Be careful with a running engine. Hot parts, poor insulation on old plug wires, an un-guarded fan, shifter slip, all can cause severe injury or death.
553988da9c4d8353e851057fbcd7a1a0.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Any luck?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Set a cup of water on your fender.
Check your park brake is on.
Shift the transfer case to neutral.
Block your tires.
Start your rig.
Observe the ripple pattern in the cup.
Stop the engine.
Mark your current distributor alignment by scribing a line on the base of the distributor and engine.
Loosen the distributor hold down bolt but leave some resistance on it so the distributor doesn't flop around.
Get a friend to start the engine while you hold the distributor in place.
Slowly, very very very slowly start rotating the distributor in small increments while you watch the ripple pattern in the cup.
If it gets worse (choppy or uneven rings) STOP and rotate back then the other direction.
You will find a "sweet spot" where it sounds right but the ripple pattern, once even and low ripples, will get you spot on. Tighten it. (Carefully as it's hot now).
I haven't used a light for a tune in years.
(Different story if you had removed and replaced your distributor).

Be careful with a running engine. Hot parts, poor insulation on old plug wires, an un-guarded fan, shifter slip, all can cause severe injury or death.
553988da9c4d8353e851057fbcd7a1a0.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Man I know some old school tricks but I never saw this one. I need to try this out as I just replaced my distributor on Sunday and tuned the idle advance, full mech and vacuum advance. I am curious to see where this holds compared to my timing adjustments.
 
Let me know. My 258 purs like a kitten with no lope.
I don't bother with a light anymore.


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
I agree with a previous post, a 4 barrel holley is too much carb for a 258. You may get it to work, as someone here suggested, but why try? They were not intended for this application. I've been building sbc's all my life and I've seen low hp v8's that were perfectly happy with a 500cfm 2 barrel...
 
I agree with a previous post, a 4 barrel holley is too much carb for a 258. You may get it to work, as someone here suggested, but why try? They were not intended for this application. I've been building sbc's all my life and I've seen low hp v8's that were perfectly happy with a 500cfm 2 barrel...

I get were talking Jeep but what's wrong with some performance fun?

500 would be a bit much agreed.

With an aftermarket intake, riser, and headers:
425cfm is perfect for a 258.

Agree to disagree I guess.

Depends what your after.
A great sounding reliable and responsive IL6 or a "whatever factory intended".


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
I get were talking Jeep but what's wrong with some performance fun?

500 would be a bit much agreed.

With an aftermarket intake, riser, and headers:
425cfm is perfect for a 258.

Agree to disagree I guess.

Depends what your after.
A great sounding reliable and responsive IL6 or a "whatever factory intended".


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

My reference to the 500cfm/2 bbl was to point out that a 350+ chevy which is 100 cu in more than a AMC 258, can be perfectly happy with a 2bbl, thus it would stand to reason that a 4bbl is way more than needed for a 258 regardless of intake, headers, etc.

More fuel doesn't necessarily = "performance fun". For most people it would be worst gas mileage and tuning issues.

Don't know what your experience is with Holleys, but I have been building/running Holleys for 50 years and I can see no reason for putting a 4 bll on a 6 cylinder 258.

As you said, these kinds of discussions usually end up having an "agree to disagree" conclusion. Glad to hear you've been successful and yours "purrs like a kitten"...
 
My reference to the 500cfm/2 bbl was to point out that a 350+ chevy which is 100 cu in more than a AMC 258, can be perfectly happy with a 2bbl, thus it would stand to reason that a 4bbl is way more than needed for a 258 regardless of intake, headers, etc.



More fuel doesn't necessarily = "performance fun". For most people it would be worst gas mileage and tuning issues.



Don't know what your experience is with Holleys, but I have been building/running Holleys for 50 years and I can see no reason for putting a 4 bll on a 6 cylinder 258.



As you said, these kinds of discussions usually end up having an "agree to disagree" conclusion. Glad to hear you've been successful and yours "purrs like a kitten"...
Actually I do agree with you.
258 is happy with a 2barrel pulling 195 cfm for intended use.

CFM over 425 is wasted on a 258 for typical driving and wheeling no doubt.

165 to 195 CFM is a performance choke point on the 258.

Adequate for a daily driver and trails though. Absolutely.

395 to 425 seems about right if your Willing to invest in all of the supporting components to allow your engine to take advantage. Includes air in and exhaust out. Rebuild, Bored, Mild Cam, Headers, Manifold, Distributor, etc.

More about "hot rodding" on a budget and "because you can". If you want to "Wake up" the 258. Chuck wrenches on progressively more challenging mods.

Now she makes a little noise!

Changes the curve and stops the fall off (HP curve) at 2000 rpm (ish).

Stock motor......and a 4barrel......nope. Waste of time and money. Nothing but frustration ahead. No argument.

As to experience:
This is a hobby for me. I'm an in-liner. Not because they are "better" just because I fell in love with them.

Stock they are capable but boring.

Only a couple of CJ builds under my belt.








Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Maybe it's the main lining of the whiskey from the bottle. :)
 
I maybe should have started my post with "If your a Redneck Albertan like me......" Then all of this would have fallen into context.

956c39cd34f10eb089c5fe7d757caff5.jpg


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
The skull reminded Me of Achmed from Jeff Dunham
 

Jeep-CJ Donation Drive

Help support Jeep-CJ.com by making a donation.

Help support Jeep-CJ.com by making a donation.
Goal
$200.00
Earned
$0.00
This donation drive ends in
Back
Top Bottom
AdBlock Detected

I get it, I'm a Jeep owner and ad-block detectors kinda stink but ads are needed on this site. This is a CJ site, all the ads are set for autos (some times others get through.) I cannot make them just for Jeeps but I try.

Please allow ads as they help keep this site running by offsetting the costs of software and server fees.
Clicking on No Thanks will temporarily disable this message.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks