Suspension CJ Suspension Upgrade Questions

Suspension CJ Suspension Upgrade Questions

t6dpilot

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Location
Chicago Area
Vehicle(s)
1978 Jeep CJ-5 304 V-8 28,000 miles
Hey all, newb here to this site, but not new to off roading and CJ's. We have a 1978 CJ5 that has been in the family since new and has only 28,000 miles. And most of those miles have been earned on many of the 4WD trails and passes of Colorado. It has since been "retired" from hardcore 4WD trails and spends most of its time in the garage in CO sadly. Need to change that... It also sits on its original suspension if you can believe that! Time for an upgrade and I see the Rocky Road YJ upgrade gets high marks.

Has anyone here done the conversion? I would welcome some real world feedback. This is going to be a stock height, spring under conversion - no lift kit. Thanks for any input!

Scott
 
Welcome ! Can't give you any feedback because I've had warn 2 1/2 inch lift for the last 30 years. I'm Sure you will hear from others though. How about posting up some pictures of what you have ?
 
For your year Rocky Road makes several kits and they are all great. You can also piece all the parts individually.

The YJ spring kit is great. Much better ride and better articulation.

BW - I am not endorsed or know Rocky Road (I wish they would buy advertising... :) )
 
Some observations from experience... General in nature...

*IF* you want to go 'Fast', you NEED a lot of travel really quickly.
Leaf springs are NOT the way to go.
CJs were never intended to run 100 MPH across the desert.

SOFT springs work better for trail rigs, 1 wheel will move (over a rock) while allowing the other 3 to stay in contact with the ground.
Most 'Off Road' springs are WAY too stiff.
It's WAY easier on your body, the vehicle frame/body/power units when it's not sharp beating everything.

Soft springs SUCK out loud on the highway where body roll and staying in your own lane come into play...
Again, CJs were never intended to go 100 MPH anywhere.

'Lift' is relative. You probably won't hear that anywhere else...

Straight Axles, you 'Lift' is in the side wall height of the tires you use, nothing else.
If the axle housing won't clear the obstacle, you aren't going anywhere.
Since the smallest rim you can use is 15", use a 15" rim and taller sidewall tires to increase ground/obstacle to axle housing distance, increasing ground clearance AND giving you more cushion (suspension) travel as the tire absorbs some of the obstacle impact.

They drive like :dung: on the highway, but the spongy, soft sidewall off road tires are made for a reason...
This isn't an up armored Hummer that weighs 10 tons, soggy tires work GREAT on a light weight off roader/trail vehicle, and they give you actual GROUND CLEARANCE LIFT.

All taller "Lifted" springs supply is frame clearance for frame, and body clearance from obstacles/tires.
While you *Might* need some spring lift for body parts to clear bigger tires, a body lift gets you to the same place without the body over spring sway/roll.

The point is, if you are NOT dragging body, frame, drive train regularly,
And the tires aren't rubbing, no need to lift the rest above axle height.
The lower your center of gravity, the greater angles you can manage without tipping over or lifting wheel pressure from ground.

Before I order buggy (leaf) springs, I ALWAYS do tires first.
Find a tire that has a soggy side wall, one that's rated to be aired down so it's even more soggy (more traction AND suspension),
Since this is the only thing that gains actual ground clearance.

Once you have a tire that works well, then look into clearance.
An occasional tire rub on body or frame GETS WORSE when you have 'Lifted' springs...
It's because the spring allows the axle to move SIDEWAYS under the frame, more spring = more sway over the springs.
(This is where you start needing track bars to keep the axle centered under the frame, or a stupid stiff spring, the reason so many 'off road' springs are stupid stiff)

When you find a tire that works well, that's money in the bank.
Don't go stupid wide so it rubs, it's that simple.
Stupid wide tires work best on soft sand anyway, and not a lot of sand dune runners in the rock mountains...

The traction you NEED is directly proportional to the available power you have.
A mostly stock CJ doesn't need 15" wide contact patch on pavement, we aren't drag racing,
And if you look at high traction, low powered vehicles, like WWII Jeeps, tractors, etc. you see relatively NARROW contact patch and more agressive biting lug tires...
Take a cue from that. Wide spreads out the weight, reducing the effective 'Bite' (friction coefficient). Stupid wide requires new, non stock rims requiring more money and reducing the potential supply of replacements when you need them.

*IF* this is going to be obstacle climbing off road only,
Consider two things,
1. Dana 44 or Dana 60 up front with outboard springs (front springs moved outside the frame on 'L' brackets,
2. Reversing the shackles, move the front axle shackles from front to back of the front springs.
Shackle reversal is a stupid effective, low budget way to increase your ability to climb over high angle obstacles.
Costs you some highway driving comfort, but most everything is a trade off...
 
Thanks for the replies fellas. I am balking at the YJ conversion for now. Local shop isn't keen on customer supplied parts and I do not have my cache of tools here to do the work myself. Looking at BDS now, but they offer only lift kit springs. Do not want a 2.5" lift (does that kit really lift it 2-1/2"? My father will not be able to get in the Jeep if it results in a higher than stock body.

I'll get some pics soon. Believe it or not, it is snowing like crazy here!
 
Thanks for that recommendation j6824. I'll look into those two suppliers.

Post snow pic for jfmcj7.
 

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Hmmm, I did not know that, although I see many groups of Four Wheelers come through town, usually modded Rubicons and Toyotas.
 

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It's typically not good business to argue with my buddy TeamRush, however we indeed do have a mutual respect for each other. He's forgotten more about electricity / electronics than I can pray to ever know myself. Absolute wizard.

That said - I look at lifts a bit different... He's correct that nothing raises the lowest part (axle) besides tire/wheel combo. But there are many more reasons for lift than just what the axle will clear. There are rocks that may "need" a wheel over them, and when the front comes off of it, you need to clear the frame/body. Additionally there are ledges, etc. that you need to pass, and chassis lift is crucial.

If you have family that can't take any higher than stock under any circumstances (including steps, etc.) then stock springs are where it's at. I still suggest a Rocky-Road conversion with stock YJ springs, just a better ride period.

If your local shop is bucking about customer supplied parts, they're just trying to make money on parts. No other answer. it's not like it's an alternator or starter that they feel they have to guarantee. Find someone else or find someone local from a club, etc. The Rocky Road stuff is top-notch and their SOA kit is better than anyone else's I've seen.
 
I've done the Rocky road YJ spring conversion with the old man emu springs.

Pros - the springs flex really well. The ride was nice and smooth, better than my stock CJ springs. The spring hanger and shackle hanger brackets for wider spring conversion were made well, by we ended up cutting and customizing them. That's about it.

Cons - the shock towers were not correct for the kit - and the shocks were not correct for the kit. The bolts were all grade 5 (personally prefer grade 8 on my rig - really a big deal? not sure) Install instructions were :dung:, and YJ springs are not centered eye to locating pin on "some" of their springs... Caused a bit of a issue when getting the Drivelines redone, but you won't have that problem.

My suggestion would be get old man emu stock height springs for a YJ, have shop (if you still like them) use those springs and tell them they can fab up brackets. As 007 said, if they don't want to do the work, not a shop I'd use.

Now - since you're not lifting, chances are you won't have to deal with the shocks / driveline, etc. However the location of the spring eyes will be different, so expect a slight change in elevation even with stock YJ springs. And just remember with YJ springs to make sure that you measure from eye to pins to make sure they're centered. If not, adjust accordingly. the spring orientation can make a 2" difference in the location of the front / rear ends. it's 1" offset on the lift springs I got from Old man emu, and new ones from Ruff Stuff or rough country - whoever's I bought (escaping me at the moment...)
 
I've done the Rocky road YJ spring conversion with the old man emu springs.

Pros - the springs flex really well. The ride was nice and smooth, better than my stock CJ springs. The spring hanger and shackle hanger brackets for wider spring conversion were made well, by we ended up cutting and customizing them. That's about it.

Cons - the shock towers were not correct for the kit - and the shocks were not correct for the kit. The bolts were all grade 5 (personally prefer grade 8 on my rig - really a big deal? not sure) Install instructions were :dung:, and YJ springs are not centered eye to locating pin on "some" of their springs... Caused a bit of a issue when getting the Drivelines redone, but you won't have that problem.

My suggestion would be get old man emu stock height springs for a YJ, have shop (if you still like them) use those springs and tell them they can fab up brackets. As 007 said, if they don't want to do the work, not a shop I'd use.

Now - since you're not lifting, chances are you won't have to deal with the shocks / driveline, etc. However the location of the spring eyes will be different, so expect a slight change in elevation even with stock YJ springs. And just remember with YJ springs to make sure that you measure from eye to pins to make sure they're centered. If not, adjust accordingly. the spring orientation can make a 2" difference in the location of the front / rear ends. it's 1" offset on the lift springs I got from Old man emu, and new ones from Ruff Stuff or rough country - whoever's I bought (escaping me at the moment...)

I also did the Rocky road YJ spring conversion with the old man emu springs.

I agree with the Pros and Cons. Huge improvement on the highway(I went with the stiffest spring option) and nice flex. Good quality parts, however it wasn't a simple bolt on and it took a couple of tries to get the correct springs. I don't recall any instructions, I am still wondering if I did it correctly, lol.
 
I've also put a Rocky-Road YJ conversion Old Man Emu kit on my CJ7. When I picked up the jeep it had a set of 80's lifted springs that rode like :dung: (2.5"). The new set-up is a HUGE improvement. Some notes:

The parts they fabricate in house are great. If you choose ALL the parts, the kit comes with all the parts you need to do the conversion... you literally can buy the whole kit and be done shopping. Way, way easier than trying to part it together from 5 different vendors. The shocks mine came with are sized to fit from tower to the leaf spring plate. My front axle has mounts, so the shocks were too long. My jeep also already had an aftermarket drive shaft on the rear and with or without the transmission lowering spacers I ran into vibration issues. That was fixed with a call to Woody. BTW, the transmission lowering spacers result in an extremely small gap between the cylinder head and the firewall, as the whole engine tips back a little when you install them. Leave them out if you can.

My issue was the 9 weeks it took rocky-road to get the kit to me. After 4 weeks of not having the kit I called to check up on it. They will tell you that at that point I cancelled the order. They're wrong, but whatever, when I called back at 6 weeks to check up on the order they must have started making the parts, because I had them a few weeks later.

A+ for their parts.
A+ for the OME springs
C for the shocks they sell
C- for customer service- just admit there was a misunderstanding instead of sticking to your guns. It's that easy get past an error get on with business and then stories like this won't pop up online everyone once in a while.

The kit I was shipped had reasonable instructions, but its not a terribly complicated job anyway.

i-htS2Z6q-X2.jpg
 
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Nice looking CJ !
 
I have also installed the RR OME kit and would recommend it. The ride is night and day to the stock setup. I did the lift but they now offer the conversion with stock height YJ springs I think. My kit was like $1388 shipped. It's a pretty "easy" install all said. You can do it with basic hand tools assuming all goes well. The horrible part is getting all the old bolts out without breaking them. Lots of liquid wrench and a torch is a must lol. As mentioned the kit is complete, but plan on upgrading bolts especially for the hangers since the kit calls for reusing the original bolts. I'm not a fan of the dropped transfer case as mentioned. I just removed it and am working on getting my drive line sorted. But won't come into play if you're doing stock springs.
 

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